Unlimited Translation Works

Fate/Zero – 16

Are you gay for Lancer yet?

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This episode covers one of the most emotional scenes in the Fate/Zero novel. I suppose they did a pretty swell job animating it, though some of the devices they used felt a little forced to me.
Please enjoy the episode!

116 Thoughts on “Fate/Zero – 16

  1. Gilgamesh on April 22, 2012 at 1:29 am said:

    No, although I do laugh at his suffering.

  2. Captain Falcon on April 22, 2012 at 1:30 am said:


  3. Lancer on April 22, 2012 at 1:31 am said:

    Fuck off Gilgamesh, you never even bothered fighting me

  4. dudo33 on April 22, 2012 at 1:31 am said:

    I’m starting to like Kiritsugu even more. It’s a shame that lancer becomes vengeful spirit

  5. Early! What is this sorcery?!

  6. Gilgamesh on April 22, 2012 at 1:35 am said:

    Well, I guess lancer gets the last laugh, his curse follows through…

  7. NJMANGA on April 22, 2012 at 1:36 am said:

    Its interesting how sabers past master emiya’s father was the type to kill in such a non honorable way and when you look at emiya he never wanted saber to fight, kisaragi uses saber as a tool and doesnt view her even as a knight or woman while emiya was one on one in terms of fighting alongside her or fighting himself, its interesting looking at the different relationship of both her master past and future, I can understand a little more why emiya was such a stronger master in terms of what he was able to get saber to do compared to kisaragi, kisaragi is just a jerk honestly especially how he steps all over sabers honor as a king and knight, this also explains alot why saber acted the way she did with emiya since sabers is the only spirit that retains her memory of the previous grail war since technically she wasnt dead according to fate night just doing the temp contract with the world before she died to be the spirit of the world. things are coming together

  8. @NJMANGA – err you mean Kiritsugu right? There is no “kisaragi” in F/Z lol…

  9. Arashi_Leonhart on April 22, 2012 at 1:42 am said:

    Someone’s been reading too much Kisaragi Gunma.

  10. FLicksL on April 22, 2012 at 1:48 am said:

    THANK YOU UTW!! Another superb epsd.

  11. Anono on April 22, 2012 at 1:50 am said:

    though some of the devices they used felt a little forced to me.
    Aren’t you the guys that said the “ex–kusu–ali—barrrrrrrrr” episode that dumped all it’s budget into the spirit bomb and skipped/condensed other points was “jaw-droppingly fabulous”?
    I guess if it’s not shiny, lol…..

  12. Finally, yes! Thanks, UTW!

  13. never sign any contract written by Gen Urobuchi.

  14. Tsuru21 on April 22, 2012 at 2:01 am said:

    Good episode but I agree some parts are a bit forced, they’ve just resorted to getting characters to say stuff to themselves to get points across.

  15. Bdizzle on April 22, 2012 at 2:04 am said:

    Thanks for episode, you guys supply me with my weekly fix πŸ™‚

  16. This episode was boring. Nothing more to say.
    But thanks guys.

  17. Thanks πŸ˜€ So excited for this episode!

  18. Mitsubishi "Lancer" on April 22, 2012 at 2:11 am said:

    Oh my God! Lancer died!! You bastard!!

  19. Stefano on April 22, 2012 at 2:11 am said:

    “What the Hell, Hero?” is one of my favorite tropes. And one that is all over this episode πŸ˜‰

  20. Ansehelm on April 22, 2012 at 2:14 am said:

    To those who are blaming the outcome: This is war, what were you guys expecting? Both masters stand aside and let Saber and Lancer fight in an arena honorably? If you are hoping for good endings for good guys always, seek for Naruto and One Piece then.
    Btw UTW thanks a lot for this episode πŸ™‚

  21. Whore of Babylon on April 22, 2012 at 2:21 am said:

    Will you guys ever make a 10-bit release?

  22. tormaid on April 22, 2012 at 2:23 am said:

    Wow, that was intense…

  23. Makoto on April 22, 2012 at 2:23 am said:

    @Whore of Babylon
    Not sure if srs or just illiterate.

  24. a contract obtained duress is a non-binding contract
    it’s too bad kai-ness didn’t have a lawyer

  25. Man In Black on April 22, 2012 at 2:28 am said:

    Just CAME to say that I’m GAR for no one else than Archer.

  26. Kinny Riddle on April 22, 2012 at 2:31 am said:

    “Oh my god! They killed Lancer!”
    “You bastard!”
    – Running joke from Carnival Phantasm, which in turn was a parody of that famous line in South Park. Applies to the 5th Lancer getting killed off every time, though I believe it applies to the 4th Lancer here as well.
    UTW, you guys ought to have translated that running joke as such in Carnival Phantasm.


  28. rpgman1 on April 22, 2012 at 2:33 am said:

    Just like ways to get around a contract in real life, but Lancer dies and curses them like a vengeful spirit. Of course, having the worst Luck compared to other heroic spirits doesn’t help much either.

  29. tony_redgrave on April 22, 2012 at 2:40 am said:

    I’m so happy this Lancer died. Even though I do not agree with his master’s reasoning about why he can be considered a hypocrite when babbling about chivalry, honor, righteousness and all that, I do believe he is a hypocrite for my own reasons. So glad when I heard Kiritsugu agree (in a way) with that. Love the original Lancer from F/SN though. Two Servants dead. The holy grail gets closer and closer to being materialized. Poor Iri<3
    Also millions of thanks UTW as usual^^

  30. CardcaptorRLH85 on April 22, 2012 at 2:46 am said:

    Hmm…starting here we’re (finally) getting into territory past where I stopped reading the novels. I just got busy and never went back to it. Looking at that summary maybe I’ll go back and finish them this week before episode 17 comes out.

  31. Abi Normal on April 22, 2012 at 3:01 am said:

    An enjoyable episode overall, but I have to agree with Raze. I only noticed it really with Saber’s conversation with Kiritsugu at the end where she asks about his dream of becoming a hero.

  32. AxelcG on April 22, 2012 at 3:32 am said:

    Is it just me or? I just can’t connect to depostifiles.com.

  33. Alphabetjones on April 22, 2012 at 3:40 am said:


  34. Leon-Gun on April 22, 2012 at 3:57 am said:

    @Tony_redgrave: and that comes from Kiritsugu, the man who preaches love and peace and rainbows to Emiya Shirou yet was a cuttroath pragmatist who would kill anyone he had to in order to bring about his ideal. Pot calling kettle black.

  35. ランァををををををををををををををーーーーー!!!!!! をむγƒͺむむむむむ!!!!
    γγ‚Šγ€γγ‚’ε₯½γγ˜γ‚ƒγͺγ„γ‚“γ γ€‚γ‚γ‚γ€γƒ©γƒ³γ‚΅γƒΌγŒγ“γ‚γ„γ γ­

  36. Does anyone know if ufotable has announced plans to include the flashback scene which originally showed up towards the end of Act 10 in the original four-book release? Perhaps as special “director’s cut” footage for the BDs? Perhaps for Episode 17 next week when the relevant character shows back up? I was kind of hoping it’d be the pre-OP credits scene for this week’s episode, just like how Lancer’s flashback was for Episode 09. Was a little disappointed to see that it didn’t make it into 16 period. And I have to admit I’m a little worried it might not make it in at all. πŸ™ Not the end of the world if it doesn’t but … it has the potential to be an amazing flashback scene when given visuals and voices, just like Lancer’s ended up being. Would be a shame for them to not animate it at all.
    Another week, another very good episode. I was not expecting so many events to occur this week!

  37. tony_redgrave on April 22, 2012 at 4:11 am said:

    @Leon-Gun: Well, yeah, but the difference between Shirou & Kiritsugu is that even though they both wish for a world of peace, and to be heroes and such childish stuff, at some point, Kiritsugu matured enough to understand that you can’t save everyone/be fair to everyone etc. Even though Shirou clearly knows all that already(he says so himself many times), he denies them foolishly trying for the “perfect ending” forever. If no one stops him in his way he becomes someone who hates himself for his ideals(Archer) or someone who keeps trying to believe that he isn’t wrong because his wish to help others can’t be a bad thing. The lol of the matter is that he misses the point as no one really made fun of what he wished for, but rather of his means to achieve it who were too naive and foolish. Kiritsugu might still want rainbows and little happy ponies, but at least deep inside he knows it can’t happen, hence why he acts like a bastard who will use any means possibleXD

  38. alex0714 on April 22, 2012 at 4:41 am said:

    Thank you very much! Kiritsugu is a bastard and a badass at the same time xD Lancer Rage is epic

  39. Lexandritte on April 22, 2012 at 4:49 am said:

    Lancers seem to have a disposition for self-stabbing-in-the-heart in Grail Wars…

  40. MagiaErebea on April 22, 2012 at 4:56 am said:

    How very true….Contract?/人◕ β€Ώβ€Ώ β—•δΊΊοΌΌ

  41. Ansehelm on April 22, 2012 at 5:03 am said:

    @Lexandritte HAHAHA damn straight with this fact.

  42. Mitsubishi "Lancer" on April 22, 2012 at 5:29 am said:

    forgot to give my thanks to UTW!! You guys rock!!
    During that knife scene..I thought it was Ryougi Shiki! :))

  43. macxxx007 on April 22, 2012 at 5:58 am said:

    Thanks for the episode and I hope you all are having a good weekend… NIGHT!

  44. OmegaD on April 22, 2012 at 6:34 am said:

    Thanks for another epic f/z hit. My only comment is that I really liked the line ‘a sin called victory’ that was used in the LNs instead of ‘a crime we call victory’. I reckon it has a lot more impact and always recall it when my mind wanders to f/z :/
    Anyways, thanks again! Keep up the great work!

  45. Cyphren on April 22, 2012 at 6:38 am said:

    They changed one of my favourite lines from the sound drama, I really thought that that line would stay (it was similar, but it had less impact imo). That, and I was a little surprised that Sola-Ui never woke up to freak out over Lancer’s suicide, I don’t remember the book, but she is conscious in the drama. I really didn’t like the hand cutting scene either. That I feel, could have been done better.
    Other than that, really great episode, this was probably my second favourite part of the series (The Feast of Kings being third) I’d been waiting for this one in particular.

  46. Aweso on April 22, 2012 at 7:02 am said:

    _____ died!
    You aren’t human!

  47. nINJAkECIL on April 22, 2012 at 10:09 am said:

    I’m just wondering. Now that the official lyrics for OP are out, why’d you guys not using it in the OP (the first phrase I mean. Is it greek?)
    Anyway thanks for the release.

  48. Kiritsugu is not a real man .. He makes Maiya do all his dirty work

  49. Could someone explain to me why Saber uses her armor when the second lance is already destroyed and the first lance just cuts through mana?

  50. Anybody else feels like it’s odd, that Maya managed to cut off an arm with nothing more than a knife, or that Sola-Ui lost far too much blood as a result?

  51. Carecup on April 22, 2012 at 10:50 am said:

    @tony_redgrave 3 servants dead- Assassin, Lancer and Caster.

  52. @Carecup
    Kotomine Kirei is a master again so that means Assassin is alive.
    Watch episode 12 again πŸ˜›

  53. Jay-kun on April 22, 2012 at 11:37 am said:

    Thanks! πŸ˜€

  54. @Ayato
    Assassin is dead, Kotomine becoming a master again doesn’t mean his servant got resurrected, it just means that Kotomine can form a contract with an existing Servant…

  55. Is it me or is Kiritsugu the only Master in the Whole Fate Series that know how to use and act with his servant =/

  56. Thanks! πŸ˜€

  57. Aelia on April 22, 2012 at 1:36 pm said:

    it’s not that simple. Archers have Independent Action, which is half the reason why Tokiomi has such difficulty “controlling” him.
    Speaking of Tokiomi, I’m sure next episode will be… special for him. D:

  58. tony_redgrave on April 22, 2012 at 1:36 pm said:

    Ah yeah, kinda forgot about Assassin, because he didn’t do anything of importance lol. A pityXD I wonder if he’d be more useful under Kiritsugu or something. Type-Moon wiki says that this Assassin can beat Lancer but never explains how. I’d like to know. I may not like Lancer much, but this seems kinda impossible.

  59. Ayato on April 22, 2012 at 2:44 pm said:

    @Tai thanks for correcting me XD and I hope Kirei gets a new servant ..He is my favourite character!

  60. tony_redgrave on April 22, 2012 at 2:46 pm said:

    @Ayato, that makes two of usXD Kirei ftw!

  61. george1234 on April 22, 2012 at 4:21 pm said:

    Why is the file (SD DDL Deposit Files) buffering and its not downloaded completely ?

  62. For Someone's Glory on April 22, 2012 at 4:35 pm said:

    @tony_redgrave :
    > Ah yeah, kinda forgot about Assassin, because he didn’t do anything of importance lol.
    > A pityXD I wonder if he’d be more useful under Kiritsugu or something.
    > Type-Moon wiki says that this Assassin can beat Lancer but never explains how.
    > I’d like to know. I may not like Lancer much, but this seems kinda impossible.
    Maybe the simple answer is : Lancer would be mobbed by Assassin.
    The long answer :
    I think it’s because that Lancer Diarmuid is only excels at 1 vs 1 combat, even both of his noble phantasms are just anti-unit attack that can only hit 1~2 people in a strike. Assassin Hassan can split himself up to an 80 units army. Of course, Lancer is mobbed and his skills are useless against mob.

  63. @nINJAkEcil
    Because there are no booklet scans yet.

  64. farangy on April 22, 2012 at 6:13 pm said:

    21:47 suddenly comes the manly tears.
    What the hell just happened? I was NOT Prepared for that

  65. Master Ridley on April 22, 2012 at 8:12 pm said:

    @Ayato: “and I hope Kirei gets a new servant ..He is my favourite character!”
    Don’t worry for he does get a new Servant: Kotomine gets Gilgamesh after Tokiomi gets killed.

  66. Synced on April 22, 2012 at 9:12 pm said:

    Wow, why must some guys spoil everything to others without even using spoiler tags?
    There are some people who watch Fate/Zero for the first time, you know.
    As always, thanks for the release, UTW.

  67. Jimmeh on April 22, 2012 at 9:30 pm said:

    @Synced, agreed with that πŸ˜› also, I need some advice.
    Got both Fate/Zero S1 and Fate/Stay downloaded, not seen either yet, should I wait for the second season of Zero to finish airing and watch both of them or watch /Stay first? D:

  68. Synced on April 22, 2012 at 9:41 pm said:

    Play the visual novel first, seriously. :>
    The anime depicts FSN’s first route “Fate”, so FSN’s story isn’t really complete after only watching 1/3 of the whole story. Besides, the animation quality is obviously worse than FZ and DEEN fucked up the story a bit because they tried to mix in a bit of the other two routes.
    It’s up to you. I don’t think watching the FSN anime is worth it, but I personally would go for it first.

  69. farangy on April 22, 2012 at 11:11 pm said:

    don’t forget about the movie either “F/SN: Unlimited Blade Works”
    It’s the 2nd route of visual novel and in my opinion it was a awesome movie

  70. someone on April 22, 2012 at 11:22 pm said:

    The tragedy of Lancer. And Saber’s further resentment for Kiritsugu begins.

  71. Jimmeh on April 22, 2012 at 11:25 pm said:

    @farangy, Yeah I also have that downloaded, is it an entirely new story, or a continuation or what?

  72. Synced on April 22, 2012 at 11:39 pm said:

    All three routes of FSN are telling Shirou’s story of the 5th Holy Grail War. All three routes tell different stories, though essentially it’s still about the HGW. Basically, right at the beginning Shirou made different choices that will completely affect and change the whole plot.
    However, I don’t really recommend watching the movie if you haven’t read the route first. You basically see the fights in UBW animated and that’s it. It’s very difficult to follow the story that way. Oh, and the humor is lacking in the movie. Though the fights really do look nice, imo.
    Hm, spoiler tag test <spoiler test , now that I am at it.

  73. Jimmeh on April 23, 2012 at 12:02 am said:

    I see, so FSN, possibly UBW then FZ1/2

  74. Synced on April 23, 2012 at 12:09 am said:

    Yeah, but FSN’s last route Heaven’s Feel is the best route to connect FSN and FZ. It’s also the most awesome route because of how the protagonist matures and develops. I still think playing the visual novel is the best thing you can do. When you are done, FZ should be finished(though I would wait for the bluray release). However, since FZ is a prequel, you can obviously begin with FZ first, but then you must be prepared to be confused lots of times.

  75. tony_redgrave on April 23, 2012 at 12:46 am said:

    @ For Someone’s Glory
    You make a good point. I always thought that this Assassin is a weak Servant in regards of his fighting ability – first because the class Assassin is the weakest in the classes in battles and specializes in other areas and – second because this “weak” class’ ability is to split, reducing his powers even more making him all the weaker. For that I thought a skilled fighter could probably beat all the Assassins. And Lancer was skilled enough. However, now that I think better, Lancer’s best features were the powers of his lances and other than that he wasn’t anything special – compared to the other monsters there. Also this Lancer could be summoned as a Saber as well (remember the episode from the first season about his past were he is seen wearing two swords instead of two lances) so maybe the Saber class was better suited for him, meaning that he wasn’t at full strength as a Lancer. This combined with the fact that he is chivalrous and all that stuff (which Assassin isn’t) would probably mean, that with a good plan, Assassin had him.

  76. You don’t watch FZ before FSN, just like you don’t watch Star Wars episode 1-3 before, 4-6. πŸ™‚

  77. >Are you gay for Lancer yet?
    It’s surprising how Midorikawa has that effect on some people… He was great as Natsume Kyousuke. He’s just as amazing as Zero Lancer.

  78. Kotomine on April 23, 2012 at 2:03 am said:

    I was *born* gay for lancer. also, on the subject of HF: that choice in the final confrontation. I knew which was right, I knew what would happen if I picked wrong, but, goddamn.

  79. Nick J on April 23, 2012 at 2:09 am said:

    Holy crap.
    As an US Army serviceman I have to agree with Kiritsugu’s point. Quote from “Black Hawk Down”: Once that first bullet goes past your head, politics and all that shit just goes right out the window. I have no better way to get my idea across.
    @Kotomine: Which one are you talking about? Save Saber or Bring my hand down?

  80. bdizzle on April 23, 2012 at 3:09 am said:

    @Nick J
    I remember those choices….except I screwed up a little earlier and had no choice but to “bring my hand down”….not the best choice. lol

  81. Dazza on April 23, 2012 at 4:43 am said:

    Is it me or did Saber’s armor deflected Lancer’s spear?

  82. Innocent Sorrow on April 23, 2012 at 5:59 am said:

    I have FSN, haven’t played it yet >.<, But I can be gay for lancer, oh wait I am a girl πŸ˜‰
    Honestly this series is making me sad, they made most characters so lovable and I already know whats going to happen to most of them because of FSN(anime/movie)

  83. γ‚«γƒŽγƒˆ on April 23, 2012 at 10:13 am said:

    @Innocent Sorrow
    to be fair, not all of them die anyway.
    and to be even more fair, it WAS Gen Urobuchi who wrote Fate/Zero.
    to summarize:

  84. Abi Normal on April 23, 2012 at 12:11 pm said:

    In all honesty, Diarmuid was most suited to the Lancer class. While he may have the capability to manifest as a Saber, his noble phantasms wouldn’t be nearly as awesome. He would lose the agility and survivability the Lancer class provides only to wield a different pair of anti-unit blades.

  85. wantei on April 23, 2012 at 1:23 pm said:

    When Lancer *no spoilers* it was really freaky his eyes were red as HELL!!

  86. tony_redgrave on April 23, 2012 at 2:11 pm said:

    @Abi Normal: Not necessarily. After all supposedly the class Saber is the “best” Servant. “Everyone” knows this, and Rin made quite a fuss about it before summoning Archer in F/SN. Type-Moon wiki also says that Lancer’s two swords were also magical, meaning that could probably have powerful Noble Phantasm abilities as well as his lances. Kayneth’s original expectations may have been to have summoned him as Saber, for the same reasons as Rin wanted to summon that class. To be fair the class Saber does have the best Stats (excluding Berserker who sacrifices logic for better stats), so yeah, makes sense.

  87. Break on April 23, 2012 at 5:42 pm said:

    @tony_redgrave i think the saber classs merely supposedkly is the “best” clas ebcuase it provides the best status-boni most of the tme- due to the statusboni of a servant beeign affected by 1. the strength of his/her master and 2. by how famous their legend is. most of the most famous heroes wielded sowrds, so its more likely that a sword-wielding=saber class heroic spirit is very famous (best example: king arthur/arturia, but also hercules or lancelot (if they woudltn have become berserkers), or as for people thta havent been summoned yet beowulf is also a good example.) so i dotn think it owuldve gotten diarmud much; while everoen knows arthr and most people know beowulf, diarmud is not anywhere near as famous as those.
    btw regardign “gay for lancer yet”: sory, beeing gay for gil and cu chulainn and beeing hetero for ilya and saber just doesnt leave any space for diarmud πŸ˜‰

  88. DonaNobisPacem on April 23, 2012 at 6:07 pm said:

    @Abi Normal
    Not really. While Diarmuid as a Saber will lose access to his spears, I don’t believe he’ll lose his agility nor survivability since that is more dependent on the hero than the class. Plus, he gets access to his more well known swords, Moralltach and Beagalltach, the former of which, depending on your sources, is said to destroy things in one hit, which in my opinion is pretty powerful.

  89. Abi Normal on April 23, 2012 at 6:14 pm said:

    While his two swords were probably more powerful than his spears (as he used them in more important adventures), he was more famous as a spearman as a swordsman. Sure, the Saber class has better stats as a whole, but also keep in mind that a Servant’s rank is also a significant factor in determine the final stats. Part of the reason why Hercules was such a threat to Saber was not just because Shirou prevented her from seeing her full potential as seen with Rin and Kiritsugu, but Hercules’ rank was significantly higher. The Lancer class still makes the most sense. He is allowed to make full use of his reputation (thus his rank) as well as gain that superior agility and survivability his class provides. I see this as a significant benefit over taking the Saber class to be more well-rounded and having access to enchanted blades that, from attempted research on NΓ³ralltach and Begallta, seem to be anti-unit.

  90. Arashi_Leonhart on April 23, 2012 at 6:49 pm said:

    Not sure what you mean by rank, dude. If you’re talking about the legend’s reputation, that has very little bearing on a Servant’s stats except when they’re summoned in their original home country–of which neither Herc nor Saber ever were.

  91. Nick J on April 23, 2012 at 8:25 pm said:

    Seems that way to me, too.

  92. Suaveburn on April 23, 2012 at 8:29 pm said:

    UTW i have a question can i use your banner and link it to your site from my chatango profile? its already there but i figured i should ask because it is YOUR banner after all
    in case your wondering the chatango is this id and the banner does redirect to your site.. not sure if this is ok or not but if it isn’t just tell me ill take it down as soon as i can πŸ™‚

  93. tony_redgrave on April 24, 2012 at 12:02 am said:

    @Regarding Lancer, to both Break & Abi Normal. You made some really good points. Especially Abi. Now the possibility of Diarmund falling against the Assassins is actually visible to me, while I couldn’t understand/believe it possible. Thanks to bothXD

  94. @Suaveburn: I don’t think they would mind having you do that. Just as long as you don’t claim that you made the banner yourself. I don’t think the guy who made it would appreciate it if you did that ahaha.

  95. hooha on April 24, 2012 at 7:02 am said:

    fuck poor lancer. πŸ™ And all he wanted was a nice fight. errone tryna be a bitch about it. so sad. Was his thingy related to the whole corrupt grail at stay night? I haven’t seen all of it. πŸ™

  96. Katty on April 24, 2012 at 8:43 am said:

    Goddamit, why does the Lancer class have such bad luck!?

  97. Is this serie good?

  98. γ‚«γƒŽγƒˆ on April 24, 2012 at 10:09 am said:

    the better question is, why are you watching it just now!?!
    It’s not good. It’s the best.
    Then again, everything Fate related is awesome (Fate/Zero, Fate/Stay Night, Fate/Hollow Ataraxia).

  99. Fate series is hard on the Lancer class
    Kono hito de nashi!

  100. Shirt on April 24, 2012 at 4:24 pm said:

    I’d say prior playing and knowledge of the F/SN visual novel is a necessary prerequisite to fully appreciate the sheer awesomeness of Fate/Zero.
    As for the Diarmuid debate, sorry, but compared to the legends of Arthur and Lancelot, Gilgamesh, and Alexander, even if he didn’t have Kayneth as Master it would only be a matter of time before he lost regardless of his class, rank etc.
    That said, he does pretty good Berserker eyes.

  101. Arashi_Leonhart on April 24, 2012 at 7:12 pm said:

    Word of Nasu and Urobuchi is that Diarmuid would’ve bitched most of the 4th war servants had Kayneth not been his Master.

  102. ^ That sounds like something you say just to titillate fans about an alternate universe scenario, something we know Nasu is quite fond of given FSN and the greater NasuVerse. I have to agree with Shirt that it seems unlikely that 4th War Lancer would have been able to pull out a victory given who he had for company. The implication seems to be that he could have won without forging any alliances. I just don’t see that as possible.
    Who I think Lancer could have beaten:
    – Saber
    – Berserker
    – Caster (pre-Mion River)
    Who I don’t think Lancer could have beaten:
    – Archer
    – Rider
    – Assassin
    – Caster (Mion River)
    The problem he has with all three of those last three is a numbers problem. Lancer battles best when it’s one on one. He can have that with Saber and Berserker. (He can also take advantage of their heavy reliance on mana-infused weaponry and armor.) He doesn’t have that with pre-Mion River Caster but we’ll give him the benefit of the doubt that he could have employed his strategy for defeating Mion River Caster to defeat pre-Mion River Caster as well: just get a clear shot of the book and throw that spear! But against Archer’s ~infinite volley from the Gate of Babylon, Rider’s peerless army in Ionian Hetairoi, and Assassin’s multiple personalities manifested into separate Servant bodies, I don’t think Lancer could win. Not one on one anyway, which is what you seem to be suggesting that Nasu and Gen have gone on record to say he could have done had he had a better master.
    The only way I see Lancer winning the 4th Grail War would be if he not only had a better master but if he had one who did what we’re about to see happen next episode. Lancer needed to be a part of something like that in order to win. He needed {that} to take out the nuisance Servants he’d have a naturally hard time against like Rider or Archer and then he could have worried about taking servants like Saber and Berserker out later.
    Then again, it’s still a hand-wavey miracle that Saber managed to defeat Corrupted Grail-empowered Gilgamesh in the 5th War, what with her being so much weaker thanks to Shirou and him still having that same ol’ amazing Gate of Babylon. lol So whatever. Just goes to show you that tl;dr posts like this are pretty meaningless when it comes to the NasuVerse. Gen did the very best he could to clean up after Nasu’s literary mess but he still inherited all the canon and declarations that FSN made. And part of that means trying to explain why a demigod with an ~infinite volley of swords, axes, and spears which he can fire as forcefully as missiles still manages to lose in a one-on-one fight against anybody. ^^;

  103. Shadowknight on April 25, 2012 at 3:53 am said:

    Wow…I haven’t wanted to beat the crap out of a character more since Desert Punk. While Kayneth was a dick and Sola-ui was batshit crazy and a slut, Lancer deserved better.

  104. Michael on April 25, 2012 at 8:41 am said:

    Poor Diarmuid, wonder if the lancer classes are all cursed in this series. 2x Lancer suicide, one here and one in UnlimitedBladeWorks…

  105. Break on April 25, 2012 at 4:10 pm said:

    @Michael also both were irish… see apattern yet? i wodne rif the lancer in fate/apocryphia, who is not an irishman,w ill have better luck.

  106. tony_redgrave on April 25, 2012 at 9:20 pm said:

    @ Tal. About Saber. Let’s be fair and remember that she doesn’t use Avalon. With it, Lancer had no chance against her.

  107. leo@uhw on April 25, 2012 at 10:32 pm said:

    The beginning of the end. Lancer will be missed.

  108. anonymous on April 25, 2012 at 10:36 pm said:

    and alexander was lucky to not having that coward as his master, although waver is probably one of the most weaker mage, he was best fit for alex, considering other master mostly play hide and seek

  109. Break on April 26, 2012 at 6:43 am said:

    @anonymous yep, plus waver actually is useful for reckon. most masters are supposed to leave the fighting to the servants after all… its just that waver is the only one who actually does that.

  110. Synced on April 27, 2012 at 6:42 pm said:

    Waver is actually a coward, too and would have hidden himself if he could… It’s because he lacks the courage and isn’t confident enough to talk back to his Servant that he accompanies Rider all the time. Though he is definitely not a traditionalist like Kayneth and wouldn’t wanna waste a Command Spell for something you can solve with talking. Plus, it’s Rider, the king of bros. He is socially more competent than Lancer.

  111. neobowman on April 27, 2012 at 9:15 pm said:

    Lancer can beat Assassin. Assassin’s splitting up skill splits up his strength too. Fighting 80 is the same as fighting 1. On the other hand, he can’t beat Saber. She has Excaliblast and she’s probably better at fighting, being King Arthur and all.
    If Waver were a coward, he wouldn’t have joined the Holy Grail War.
    Lancer’s one of the two most tragic characters in Fate/Zero. No prize for guessing who the other is.

  112. Synced on April 27, 2012 at 10:27 pm said:

    Someone called Kayneth a coward, although Waver would have used the same tactics. If Kayneth is a coward for acting like a proper magus(at least until he lost his Crest and Circuits), then so is Waver.
    Btw, Waver does not really value his life right now. There is a difference between fighting with your life at stake and willingly throwing your life away because you are not acknowledged by others. He gets so much development right now to realize this.

  113. Dazza on April 28, 2012 at 5:21 am said:

    Lancer can actually destroy Caster’s Mion River, given that he puts enough effort in to fighting. Remember, with his Golden Spear, no wounds can heal, thus Caster can’t regenerate

  114. kanshou87 on April 28, 2012 at 2:55 pm said:

    I was expected Lancer’s death but not this soon. Looks like his curse was not uplifted even after death… poor thing. Sometimes fate can just be so cruel… I don’t blame Saber’s Master for eliminating Kayneth and Sola either. He was just being objective though he might be cruel in the way he kills his opponent…

  115. neappee on May 13, 2012 at 3:29 pm said:

    hell yeah, i’ve been gay for lancer diarmuid & chu chulain, and archer gilgamesh
    thank you so much for the subs UTW…
    the debate was so amazing…

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