Unlimited Translation Works

A Certain Magical Kinshomokuroku II – 01

DOWNLOAD: [gg-UTW]_A_Certain_Magical_Index II_-_01_[A09185DD].mkv [DDL]
DOWNLOAD SCRIPT: Sometime later.

This is our first joint with gg Fansubs and we’re pretty excited to see how things will turn out. Don’t worry, the translator is in UTW, so we won’t be dropping this anytime soon. Considering this is a joint with gg, we followed some of their ideals while fansubbing. So, for this release, do not expect:

– ktiming (flat out fade in and out)
– honorifics (they’ve all been dropped)
– eastern name order (we prefer western)

Since this is Index, you can expect a more… liberal edit than usual.

Also: my choice of nickname for Biribiri is genius: Sparky.

302 Thoughts on “A Certain Magical Kinshomokuroku II – 01

  1. Why don’t you name it A Certain Magical Index II? Now it looks like it season 1.
    Sorry, that was just a link failure. The actual file has “II” in it.

  2. <3 sparky

  3. *Facepalm* on October 9, 2010 at 9:59 am said:

    As I greatly dislike gg’s “fansubbing ideals”, I’ll definitely not be following your releases for this particular series. The way you handle the issues in Amagami and Yosusora releases are more in line with my preferences, so I’ll keep counting on you guys for those.

  4. imgayirl on October 9, 2010 at 10:01 am said:

    enjoy the shitty subs from ayako then

  5. *Facepalm* on October 9, 2010 at 10:08 am said:

    ^Thanks, I will.

  6. Kinbaku at the first episode? How erotic. 😀
    Jokes aside, thanks for the release.

  7. McAnder on October 9, 2010 at 10:13 am said:

    koda should just kill herself and make world more better.

  8. will follow amagami-SS. not a “westernization of anime” fan. so no index-ii from utw. keep up the great work with amagami-ss. thanks for all the hard work. <3

  9. CODEHOOKED on October 9, 2010 at 10:16 am said:

    been waiting for this release ;]

  10. I don’t care much about localization. Switching the name order is a bit annoying since it doesn’t mesh with the audio and it takes me a second to figure out. I hope you’re not replacing surnames with first names as I’ve seen gg do, because that’s simply trolling. I could care less about honorifics or literal translations, though. I like subs that are clear and read naturally the best. I don’t need word for word exact translations to test my knowledge of gratuitous Japanese, particularly when I can hear it just fine. Trolling is a completely different subject, though.

  11. DmonHiro on October 9, 2010 at 10:26 am said:

    I’m sorry, but this is fail.
    – honorifics (they’ve all been dropped)
    – eastern name order (we prefer western)
    Since this is Index, you can expect a more… liberal edit than usual.
    I’m usually 100% behind you guys, but this disappoints me.

  12. Collaboration with [gg] of all people? I’m disappoint.

  13. Vespia on October 9, 2010 at 10:35 am said:

    I love all your other releases, but I will not be getting this one as I am not a fan of localization at all. Thank you anyways.

  14. So I guess this will be 480p? great…

  15. gangler on October 9, 2010 at 10:38 am said:

    Lol. People get so worked up about the honorifics. What kind of dipshit can’t just hear them?
    Anyway thanks for the release.

  16. ShadowRealm on October 9, 2010 at 10:42 am said:

    A..ri..ga..to~~~

  17. You were doing good and now you fucked it hard with this, i lost my faith in you UTW

  18. MagusHrist on October 9, 2010 at 10:58 am said:

    How disappointing.

  19. Wow.
    Just… wow.
    I’m bookmarking these comments to check up on them later.

  20. Nukleon on October 9, 2010 at 11:02 am said:

    Lol people who want what they read to match perfectly with what they hear.
    I’m sure you people like to write in your note while looking at gravure girls and drinking sake.
    Kudos UTW for standing up to people without any Japanese knowledge who cry on comment sections and make posts on /a/ about how fansubbers suck because “you can clearly hear that reborrowed english word they used in that sentence, and aaargh why would you change note to notebook when they say note!!!!11!!”
    What AFK did was localization, this is just translation, shut your fat gobs and enjoy your crappy anime-cartoon

  21. required on October 9, 2010 at 11:11 am said:

    Thanks but no thanks…
    Keep up the good work guys!

  22. Yamada on October 9, 2010 at 11:18 am said:

    And another troll sub group is born.
    Will make changes to Amagami SS?

  23. Japanese is a dumb language anyways, who cares if you take a shit all over it with GG’s trollery.
    …I’m honestly not sure if I mean this sarcastically or not. Take it either way. The “who cares” part is the main point.

  24. Thank you. I may not approve, but I come for the translation anyway.
    Lol @ people wondering if this’ll change the way you sub things on your other releases. Seriously.

  25. <_< no, please, not gg… T^T

  26. Nameless-kun on October 9, 2010 at 11:32 am said:

    This is certainly a disappointment for me as well. Even though I won’t be following this particular release of yours, I do appreciate all the awesome from you guys. Maybe I will get used to this particular style of “localization” in the future. Or maybe not. I just hope you guys retain your usual fansubbing style outside of this particular project.

  27. Not ME on October 9, 2010 at 11:39 am said:

    Sparky!
    ffs
    Sparky…..
    Woof Woof. … bleh ….

  28. I agree with anon. It’s disruptive to read something that you hear in reverse. Really has nothing to do with being a weeaboo, has to do with the way the brain processes two different threads of information (hearing + reading).
    Subtitling a show isn’t the same as translating a novel; they’re two completely different mediums of media. Reversing the name order, localizing, and using first names is something I would completely accept in a novel, but is really disruptive when what you hear doesn’t match what is being read.

  29. westernization on October 9, 2010 at 11:50 am said:

    Ayako……….. FAIL
    UTW+GG+SPARKY… FAIL
    ECLIPSE……… COME BACK

  30. AlienGamer on October 9, 2010 at 12:11 pm said:

    Wow Kusion, u’r on Overdrive..Posting this here, helping with the release, and also MM with Ryuumaru…I pity the foo 😀 Thanx Man, and the teams of all three sub groups (UTW, gg, Ryuumaru (For MM))

  31. >Also: my choice of nickname for Biribiri is genius: Sparky.
    You’re all faggots. Together with gg.

  32. lonewolf on October 9, 2010 at 12:17 pm said:

    /me being sad… wtf of all groups gg? and wtf western name order, no honorifics? and biggest fail….sparky duh (my tsundere queen being called like some kind of dog….inexcusable !!), thank god ayako relase isn’t that bad XD

  33. koclokboy on October 9, 2010 at 12:25 pm said:

    Shit… GG SUCKS!
    – honorifics (they’ve all been dropped)<— FAIL
    – eastern name order (we prefer western)<— WORST FAIL
    PLEASE! JUST KICK GG OUT FROM THIS PROJECT and DO THE WORKS LIKE YOU ALWAYS DO…
    UTW ALONE = WIN
    UTW+GG = FAIL
    i really love the way you do on Amagami, and i always behind you for that series…
    okay.. i prefer downloading Ayako subs for Index II….
    please think about it…

  34. Shinserph on October 9, 2010 at 12:25 pm said:

    I fail to understand those who complain. It’s not like they’re begging you to watch their release. You’re free to go look elsewhere if you’re not satisfied.

  35. elitist.magi on October 9, 2010 at 12:25 pm said:

    hm… this is kinda sad, you guys are usually awesome but… this is just sad… T_T. Because of what you guys did I had to go around my neighborhood and MURDER puppies.. but keep up the good work with Amagami-SS!!! guess I’ma get my Touma-kun from somewhere else 😉

  36. weaver on October 9, 2010 at 12:42 pm said:

    This is a real bother….
    Taking Ayako for this =.=
    Whats more unbelievable is that Kusion.. “The” Kusion calls Biribiri, Sparky now? WTF? come on UTW time to wake up!!

  37. Anyone who finds Biribiri making more sense than Sparky needs his head checked. And omg, no honorifics; everbody is going to die now.

  38. boingman on October 9, 2010 at 1:05 pm said:

    What the…? That has to be some kind of joke, right?
    When I heard about the joint with gg, I wasn’ that happy about it, but I thought that what the heck, they’ll probably only be responsible for the raws and encoding.
    But what the hell, why would you do this UTW?

  39. seriously.. there was a time gg was a good group, but they started to really fail.
    – no honorfics.. that much I can live with
    – western name order.. no, just NO. Why do some groups even try to localize animes? It’s a japanese thing and best left as original as possible. localization just destroys the feeling.
    – biribiri = sparky ……. WTF are they thinking?
    Luckyly I can understand enough japanese to just not look at the subs at those points. Or I could just edit them myself..
    Anyways, UTW is a very great group. But this joint with gg is just fail.

  40. s0rath on October 9, 2010 at 1:13 pm said:

    So much whining and feeling powerful on the keyboard. Why don’t you just shut up and sub it yourselves then?

  41. I’ll leave this for you weaabos in comments.
    http://twitpic.com/2v9wm3
    http://twitpic.com/2va1ot

  42. Great subs, far better than Ayako. I know Ayako is bad, but I tried them anyway since they were out first. I’ll gladly wait from now on. I was hesitant about the gg collaboration since Koda has a history of trolling, but I have no problem as long as the subs are taken somewhat seriously. I think this is great work and meets my exacting standards of being clear and readable. I’m not one to pick at typos and that sort of thing. I definitely don’t judge a translation by the quality of the karaoke. The main thing I look for is how well written the subs are, and UTW and Ryuumaru are consistently a couple of the best groups in that regard.

  43. Advisor on October 9, 2010 at 1:39 pm said:

    no honorifix, westernisation…
    Ayako win this battle for me…

  44. Geese1 on October 9, 2010 at 1:52 pm said:

    Sorry, guys, but I don’t really care for some of the changes I’m reading about here. Been waiting for your release on this, but I think I’m going with Ayako at this point.
    Still love everything else you do though, so keep up the great work on your other series!

  45. I can live with the “westernization” of the subs, but Sparky – I keep thinking of a dog. That just ruins it for me.

  46. thewizardninja on October 9, 2010 at 2:12 pm said:

    Just a note for you – the name in the preview is meant to be Orsola Aquinas, that’s the official romanisation from the author of the LN’s himself.

  47. S.o.S. on October 9, 2010 at 2:12 pm said:

    Let’s see…
    No Honorifics: Don’t like, but no biggie. There has been other groups who’s done the same
    Western name order: This do bother me cause of the hear vs. read thing, and I think it’s disrespectful.
    No Ktiming: lol couldn’t care less.
    biribiri = Sparky: Remember when biribiri = Shocker? Sparky Middle Schooler sounds oh so better than Shocker Middle Schooler. I prefer just Biribiri but at least it’s cuter than Shocker.
    In all, I’ll be watching your subs while waiting for subs that better fit my tastes to appear. Anything I dislike, I’ll just assume GG held you at gun point and blame everything on them. Thanks for the release.

  48. thewizardninja on October 9, 2010 at 2:18 pm said:

    And while I’m at it – Britain =/= England and unless my hearing’s off they quite specifically said the Japanese word for knights, not soldiers.

  49. amen665 on October 9, 2010 at 2:27 pm said:

    oh god…… gg>> you guys do awesome work (utw) but doing it with gg just,,,,,,,,,. i’ll go with a differend group. i still love all your other work.

  50. In other news, California governor Suwaruchineguru Aronodu-san…

  51. Tlevis on October 9, 2010 at 2:45 pm said:

    awwww yeah, utw-gg joint project? Everything I dreamed for…

  52. TysonBlast on October 9, 2010 at 2:54 pm said:

    The backlash is delicious.
    I thought that there would be a few comments deploring this release, but I never thought it would be this bad. You guys are just being silly.

  53. @anon
    Thanks for your kind words. It’s appreciated. I was really impressed with the editing and such on this (I didn’t work on it myself) and Kusion and the others did a great job. I think if a lot of the people here saying they won’t watch it actually sat down and gave it a chance they’d realize Kusion’s post was the only real troll for this episode. The script itself was great.

  54. Dropped honorifics: Guess I can get used to that since I can hear the honorifics anyway.
    Western order of name: I’m watching a certain anime from a certain fansub group who uses western order as well, though that was only for one line or up to ten lines in an entire episode.
    Biribiri = Sparky: LOLWHUT?!
    Will try both Ayako’s and your subs before I decide further.

  55. DmonHiro on October 9, 2010 at 3:29 pm said:

    It’s actually perfectly normal to get a lot of backlash. UTW is a group who is known for not localizing, thus 90% of those who download from you expect it to be to their liking. What did you expect? Universal praise?

  56. @Dmonhiro
    I don’t know if you’ve watched it yet, but I’d watch the episode and see what you think. It’s nothing like the post makes out to be 🙂

  57. DmonHiro on October 9, 2010 at 3:56 pm said:

    Actually no, I haven’t. Haven’t seen Ayako’s either. I’m just commenting on the news.

  58. DmonHiro on October 9, 2010 at 3:58 pm said:

    Oh, and sorry for the double post, but I have to say this.
    Why hasn’t ANYONE commented on Index in bondage up here?

  59. s0rath on October 9, 2010 at 4:10 pm said:

    ^Because bondage is awesome?

  60. I think I’ll wait for a third group to come along…

  61. Nenerulo on October 9, 2010 at 4:20 pm said:

    Aside from Sparky, the first thing I noticed that bothered me was changing Touma’s catchphrase “Such misfortune…” to “How unlucky…”. Why change it?
    Reverse name order and no honorifics bothers me also, being a hear vs. read thing, causing headache.
    Why not add a second track without this specific localisation done?
    Also, episode 1 had two subtitle tracks, but they are exactly alike. Point?

  62. haters gonna hate

  63. Buffaloman on October 9, 2010 at 4:25 pm said:

    God damnit.

  64. There is no translation that does not localize. A “translation” that doesn’t localize isn’t a translation, just a culturally meaningless string of shit.

  65. Such misfortune…

  66. @fnord
    You must be new, fnord. Strictly speaking, the term “localized” and “unlocalized” have their own definition and implications in the anime fansubbing community and among anime fans. The former means that the translation omits honorifics, possibly certain otaku terminologies (tsundere, moe, etc), and possibly whatever relative/related Japanese words/phrases in the show being subbed. The latter is mainly the opposite of the former.
    That said, I am pretty disappointed, UTW. I thoroughly enjoyed your Amagami SS, and I am sad to see how you guys are handling Index 2. Western order is grating to see, and major dissonance when reading and hearing differently. Honorifics are greatly.
    I don’t think you guys have to adhered or be bullied by gg into following their translations policies, really.

  67. Buffaloman on October 9, 2010 at 5:51 pm said:

    I feel like we all watched Eclipse subs season 1.. why not at least try to follow their practices for the second season for the sake of consistency if anything. If you guys were doinga UTW-gg joint on some new show with complete localization and sparky and whatnot, sweet, have fun. But to change the norm for a second season.. cmon now. I’m a real big fan of UTW subs and I always pick you guys when multiple groups sub a show, but I think you’re messing this up.

  68. Well, but you agree that if at all possible, things are to be translated? Following that axiom – which I am sure is self-evident when we’re talking about *translations* in the first place – it is preferable to remove any trace of Japanese as long the same context can be expressed – within reasonable tolerance – in English.
    Taking Sparky:
    People say it’s not like “biribiri”. Do you even realize that “biribiri” is pretty demeaning? Sparky is no bad localization, certainly better than Shocker or whatever Eclipse felt it should be.
    As for the name order, that makes it far easier for newcomers to anime. What if someone doesn’t know they put them in another order and gets confused when he assumes the wrong parts to be first and last name? He will then start assuming they call each other by first/last name when it’s really the opposite, and a big misunderstanding will ensue. Once he levels up his weeabooism, he can hear the name order and infer that Japanese people say it differently (+300 Quest XP for the weeaboo fighter).
    I don’t find the presence of honorifics in anime especially jarring, but in my opinion a true translation should aim for subtitles without honorifics, since the presence of honorifics nudges the subs back from being a true translation and back to some shadowy transliteration.
    “You don’t care about the show!” – not by you, by others.
    That’s just ridiculous, you know? Why do you think they sub it if they didn’t care? They care about it, and they translate it the way that they feel best reflects the original. Since they probably know plenty more JP than you, arguing any other translation is appropriate means automatically putting yourself in a really tight spot. You don’t really have a right to argue about localization choices unless you can at least evidence some JLPT4 or 3-equivalent command of the language.
    Why do you think more and more people are starting to take out honorifics? To troll the viewership?
    For some reason no one seems to complain about highly liberal subtitles with stray honorifics – because all they understand *are* honorifics.
    This has always been about sociocultural segregation by some /a/ weirdo fringe and not about actual issues, like, say, accuracy.

  69. lolwut on October 9, 2010 at 6:03 pm said:

    “This is a joint with UTW Fansubs. Direct your rage at them if you dislike the subs.”
    “- ktiming dropped (fuck you, UTW)”
    what kind of dorama is this?

  70. I’m sorry that your brain doesn’t function like other human beings, fnord, but it’s mentally disruptive to hear one thing and read something else at the same time. It doesn’t make it easier for newcomers and 100% of the people who started out watching fansubs figured it out in time.
    A lot of comments said they don’t care about honorifics, and quite frankly I don’t care about karaoke.
    Subtitles are to subtitle a movie, not to write a novel. If you literally localized and translated everything in a subtitle script, then some subtitles would be 3-5 lines long. Subtitles exist to quickly communicate the meaning of what’s going on as to not disrupt the viewing of the actual movie. I’d understand if you switched first name / last name in a novel translation, but definitely not on a subtitle.
    imo BSS does things perfectly. They don’t have flashy karaoke, they don’t use honorifics, and they translate and edit appropriately in a way to convey the meaning in a way that’s not disruptive to the viewership.
    You’re just a stuckup fag.

  71. Wow, I checked Nyaa and the torrent stats are really surprising. Sinch Ayako was out first I thought they’d be ahead, but I didn’t think the difference would be so big. It’s disappointing because Ayako’s subs are really bad. I normally don’t take things people say on the internet (or IRL even) very seriously, but evidently a substantial amount of people agree with the negative comments that have been made. It’s their loss, but it’s sort of a silly issue to make a fuss over, particularly considering how good UTW’s subs normally are.
    I feel sort of bad now for posting something that could be construed as negative. It wasn’t my intention to add to the criticism. I was just speaking my mind while not worrying about how I came across. People often ignore whatever I say anyway, yet now I’m getting flak about my word choice, which is amusing. Now I’m going to argue the semantics of localization hurrr durrrr.

  72. @lolwut
    More ‘dorama’ makes for more gullible morons go ‘omg i hate you now, i will download from someone else and you will not sleep because of it’. As pathetic as these hardcore weaboos are, it is still quite entertaining to read when you’re bored enough to watch their otaku lives crumble.

  73. @anon
    No one cares about torrent (or xdcc) stats; 97% of those leechers doesn’t even care about what they’re watching as long as they’re getting it fast.

  74. Probably, though I’m more cynical than I am jaded, so I admit to being caught off guard. I’ll have to remember these details about human behavior for future reference.

  75. Nenerulo on October 9, 2010 at 6:29 pm said:

    Well said, Buffaloman.
    I know these are different groups, but one would at least expect UTW to be consistent in regards to their other series. People complain because they care is all.

  76. Will there not be any Xvid releases for this show because i really wanna keep your guyses subs but. yea
    cant really view mkv’s on my ps3

  77. Wild King on October 9, 2010 at 6:46 pm said:

    Wow people throwing weaboo left and right and feeling high and mighty. Get off your high horse.
    I don’t mind the honorifics but the name change is a bit distracting but not so much. I don’t mind sparky (Okay actually I mind cause she’s my fav character) but whatever floats your boat

  78. Legion on October 9, 2010 at 6:55 pm said:

    I like you UTW but I can’t support you guys while you’re working with gg. Especially since there’ll be no XviD release while gg’s around.
    I’ll continue to support your solo releases such as Amagami however.

  79. DmonHiro on October 9, 2010 at 6:58 pm said:

    So… what exactly is bad about the Ayako subs anyway. Keep in mind, I am a translator, so I can actually understand what is being said. So, come on, somebody who said Ayako’s subs for Index were bad, say something.

  80. Seriously fags, if you’re so mad, go edit the subs yourself, takes 5 minutes.

  81. AlsoAnon on October 9, 2010 at 7:46 pm said:

    @Anon
    I will just wait to Coalgirls to do it for me. Sad we have to wait for a 3rd party muxer to get shit right while we put up with more “look at us look at us!” gg bullshit.

  82. johnny_dickpants on October 9, 2010 at 7:52 pm said:

    LOL @ butthurt impotent rage from faggots who don’t understand the first thing about anything.
    go back to your chihiro subs, guys.

  83. I honestly don’t understand how people can complain about something they get for free. If you don’t like it, go learn Japanese. Then you can translate however you like. You guys have no right to complain since you aren’t paying a dime for these subs.

  84. artworkx on October 9, 2010 at 8:12 pm said:

    None of the haters haven’t actually bothered to watch the subs. If they were release under “Eclipse” everyone would be praising them. The editing is better than Ayako and there are no grammar or spelling mistakes. I don’t understand why “sparky” is being condemned when Eclipse used “shocker” and there was no backlash for that.

  85. Nenerulo on October 9, 2010 at 8:24 pm said:

    @Mooo
    To quote a great man:
    “for example if someone said to you you want a cookie?
    you said yes your hoping for a delicious cookie and you telling everyone and discussing how it would be
    and then you get a burnt cookie….
    now what most of you guys are saying hurr durr the cookie is free you have no right to complain
    and what i say is they could have put some more effort into the cookie to make it right and not dissapoint (sic) people.”
    Just because something is without cost does not mean it is also immune to objective criticism on said arbitrary basis of cost. It’s a pretty simple concept, just because something is free does not mean it does not have flaws or cannot be improved.

  86. gg.nigger on October 9, 2010 at 8:53 pm said:

    Ayako’s subs are bad? HAHAHA don’t bullshit me motherfuckers, the whole gg community is a fucking disgrace to the fansubbing scene. I can’t believe that UTW has fallen to such a low level thanks to gg.
    Its very simple to understand why people are raging. There is a reason why people go with specific sub groups to get their shit, and that is because they’ve come to like that group’s style, but right now all those people who had chosen UTW because they liked the way they did their shit have gotten a giant pole up their asses because of the gg’ism of the subs.
    Pull your head out of your asses you fucking gg fanboys.
    I actually downloaded the both versions, and clearly, people who say Ayako’s subs “suck” are bunch of ignorant douchefucks.
    Don’t do shit like this if you don’t like the backlash end of story if not, no ones stopping you, there are tons of other groups out there who people can go with.
    Good day.

  87. Ayako’s subs suck for various reasons, UTW’s is fine.
    But well, it’s not like the people who spout “hurr gg-UTW sucks’ don’t sound like bad trolls, so I think there’s nothing to discuss anyway.
    The western name order kind of bothers me though, because you can clearly hear them say it the other way around, but I can live with it.

  88. whoami on October 9, 2010 at 9:09 pm said:

    Whats so bad about ‘Sparky’? Its not her name, its her annoying nickname. Didn’t you see her being mad when they say ‘Biribiri’ to her? Same shit with ‘Sparky’ innit?

  89. Rubedo on October 9, 2010 at 9:15 pm said:

    Fantastic. We have Ayako’s poorly edited shitsubs vs gg’s retarded localization bullshit. UTW, you guys are better than this, you know the proper way to release a fansub and you’ve done it so well in the past, so why the fuck would you subject your subs to gg’s bullshit? Everyone with a brain knows gg sucks, we know their subs aren’t accurate and completely destroy the meaning of the original dialog, so why would you even group with them? You guys understand Japanese, you have to know that their subs are flat out wrong at times, so why would you want to have anything to do with them? Come on, cut your ties with gg and release a proper v2 of this and all future episodes.

  90. kaitzur on October 9, 2010 at 9:16 pm said:

    please change “how unlucky” to “such misfortune”

  91. EricJohnson on October 9, 2010 at 9:17 pm said:

    People here are complaining about a show’s fan translation that is being given to them for free? Ungrateful douches.

  92. @ Rubedo
    This is UTW’s usual translation + some appropriate localization.
    It’s perfectly balanced, no useless Japanese, but also no trollsub faggotry.

  93. Most people aren’t raging about the actual changes but what the changes mean.
    You have UTW who has an established, consistent style come along and change it for a high profile show when doing it with none other than gg. Oh and let’s look at the changes? Oh look at that, three of the most highly debated localization items in anime. The best part? UTW is clearly in control of this joint release but they change THEIR style rather than doing it the other way around?
    Nope sorry. Anyone with half a brain can clearly see this is yet another elaborate gg troll aiming for more drama talk on 4chan.

  94. kojika on October 9, 2010 at 9:40 pm said:

    This release is certainly a lot better than the haters would have you believe. OK, the western name order seems to be change for changes sake, but if it bothers people that much they can always edit the subs themselves.
    That’s not to say there weren’t any mistakes though:
    At 12:20 The past tense of ‘cast’ is also ‘cast’, not ‘casted’
    At 12:20 There was a typo in ‘slightly’
    At 22:21 You would say ‘British soldiers’, not ‘Britain soldiers’ (Given the armour, ‘British Knights’ would perhaps be more appropriate)
    Regards
    K~
    P.S I quite like the nickname Sparky… it rather suits her

  95. negativebro on October 9, 2010 at 9:41 pm said:

    The only thing I don’t like is the font. I enjoyed a.f.k.’s release of Haruhi S1, even though it had Western name ordering, and I adjusted for Mazui’s S2. This isn’t a big deal at all.
    Also, localization doesn’t hurt if what is read has the same meaning or effect as what the character’s line intended, which is the purpose of any decent writing/translational works. If UTW translated “sugoi” as “amazing” every single time (which they don’t), they wouldn’t doing the translation justice. It doesn’t convey any nuance of a particular character’s connotation.
    So, in closing:
    Haters:
    [] not gonna hate.
    [x] gonna hate.

  96. @Nenerulo
    Or you could not just have a cookie at all and be hungry. I prefer to have decent subs than no subs at all, and the complaints that your are giving are very minor and are only a matter preference. There are no grammatical mistakes in these subs and they are translated very well. These guys do this stuff for free and spend alot of their valuable time making these subs so do them a favor and quit b*tching.

  97. negativebro on October 9, 2010 at 9:43 pm said:

    Actually, I take that back; the font is fine. I just prefer a black shadow, but once again, I will deal with it. It’s not “holy shit massive” like Eclipse’s initial releases.

  98. Shadow on October 9, 2010 at 10:00 pm said:

    I just wish there was an xvid or 480p version, because I have a crappy computer and I didn’t want to have to go with Ayako.

  99. gg.nigger on October 9, 2010 at 10:01 pm said:

    http://www.ji-hi.net/index2/
    Is this to show how UTW-GG’s is better than Ayako’s? I think most people will actually agree that Ayako’s is better?… case and point? 2nd scene from bottom, 4th and 5th scene from the bottom…, etc… anyway w/e T_T

  100. Yeah they translated out Touma’s 3rd person speech which is complete fail. Enjoy trying to explain the reason for the double meaning later in the series.

  101. Rubedo on October 9, 2010 at 10:08 pm said:

    Also, yeah you need a 480p version.
    gg should just go back to being dead.

  102. thewizardninja on October 9, 2010 at 10:28 pm said:

    @gg.nigger
    Ayako’s problem is that they don’t write the most coherent subs, they just don’t make very good use of the English language. Anybody can tell from those comparisons that UTW are using a much more natural vocabulary, rather than just using big words they use words that make more sense in context. The only line that UTW even makes a mistake is that one with the knights. Also Ayako’s fonts are just gross.

  103. Maceart on October 9, 2010 at 10:48 pm said:

    Heh, trolled by GG.
    Anyway, I’d grab whichever’s faster, since by this point both side’s translation is good enough to watch.

  104. thewizardninja on October 9, 2010 at 10:52 pm said:

    Also stop raging about Sparky, Touma calls her by her real name 90% of the time.

  105. Dakkar on October 9, 2010 at 10:58 pm said:

    When the only reason left to do fansubs is being an attention whore, you get gg as it is now. A pity. Before they didn’t have to mess with a script in order to stand out. Well, UTW should have known what they’re getting themselves in by forming this joint.

  106. interesting comments. Well, most of the comments are going to be bad since people that search for fan subs want the original. A lot of people don’t even understand “fan subs” and just download the best thing they see as far as video quality. obviously, people who prefer dubs aren’t going to care about how the style of the subs are considering that the dubs aren’t available. then again, if the subs were in 3rd person, most westerners who aren’t familiar with anime will be like “wtf?”
    So UTW, don’t let the comments discourage you or anything….. its gonna happen.
    with that said, I do prefer the original myself but not to the point where I would blow off groups like gg.

  107. AlienGamer on October 9, 2010 at 11:03 pm said:

    Meh, I watched both, and if you can understand English properly, use Ayako, if your weal use gg-UTW. Overall i’ll go with Ayako cause they are cause they explain quite a lot of Notes, eg: The Festival thing, and cause they’re subs are just as good as UTW-gg, but edge ahead as they sub it the way it was said and not in a westernized format + if the character used honorifics, they do too, so I’d stick with Ayako..Shame though, before Ayako’s release I was sure i’d stick with gg-UTW for the season, but UTW has succumbed to gg’s pressure, when another quality group was subbing the same show

  108. AlienGamer on October 9, 2010 at 11:04 pm said:

    *weak

  109. boingman on October 9, 2010 at 11:06 pm said:

    From that comparison page, both releases look very similar to me, apart from the honorifics and the (completely annoying) reverse name order part. Funny, that it’s the Ayako release that mentions “comic books”, while UTW-gg have “manga” in their subs.

  110. AlienGamer on October 9, 2010 at 11:09 pm said:

    Oh, and another reason Ayako is better: Its clear that they have either read the novels or did their research on the story line, reason: UTW-gg “Top Britan Soldiers”, Ayako “Knights that England..”
    Its Knights, not soldiers, you can clearly see it, even if you haven’t read the novels, by what they were wearing 😛

  111. thewizardninja on October 9, 2010 at 11:17 pm said:

    @AlienGamer
    I can see from your level of English why you can’t see the problems with Ayako’s subs.

  112. DmonHiro on October 9, 2010 at 11:23 pm said:

    @thewizardninja: I can see from your comments that you ignored what he actually said. It IS “Knight of England” not “To British Soldiers”. Anyone who read the novel… or watched the first season, should know that.

  113. lvhina on October 9, 2010 at 11:29 pm said:

    Pretty disappointed as i expected UTW to do better than they pull a stunt like joint with GG
    at least we have ayako as the alternative

  114. gg.nigger on October 9, 2010 at 11:48 pm said:

    @thewizardninja
    and from your comment i can see that you’re an ignorant gg fanboy.

  115. @gg.nigger: second from the top,”I cant believe these top Britain soldiers are already down” .Surely it should be “I cant believe these top British soldiers are already down” .

  116. Sparky_Rollover on October 10, 2010 at 12:09 am said:

    @ gg.nigger
    There is 1 gg fanboi , commenting under different names to make it look like there is some kind of counter pole to the idea of the UTW-GG joint releases.
    Bottom line , they suck . Bottom line , is a rotting zombie carcass UTW is dragging around , they made the mistake of actually listening to some of the things it said while sitting there decomposing. gg should have been happy , to get some life blown it’s way , shut the fuck up , and look at how it should be done. Unfortunately Raze listened. It’s not too late for UTW to drop gg .
    Fans are genuinely concerned UTW . This is not some lashing out , this is not some hate speech. The hate and insuts , as you can very well see come from the gg trolls which you are now asociateing with.
    It’s really not too late.

  117. AlienGamer on October 10, 2010 at 12:16 am said:

    Ok first, Ayako’s exact phrase was : “The Knights that England are so proud of are in this state” gg-UTW: “Sheesh, I cant believe that these top Britan Soldiers are already down”
    If you read the novel, you’ll find that the knights play a significant part in the story, calling them soldiers shows that the translator hasn’t done his/her research.
    And like i said in my earlier comments (it wasn’t bad english, just that i typed the same thing twice :P) Ayako uses exactly what the characters say, honorifics and the correct name order. Its just that they use a more advanced level of English that gg-UTW.
    So, like i said, use gg-UTW if you can’t understand Ayako’s subs, and use Ayako if you want to read subs that use the correct order of things, plus if you like subbers who have done their research.
    No offense to UTW lovers, i followed UTW for quite a few of their releases and have grown fond of them, but with Index, they dissapointed me quite a bit

  118. Zappy Fan on October 10, 2010 at 12:21 am said:

    You guys should have used “Zappy” instead of “Sparky”.
    “Sparky” is a nickname for dogs and guys.
    Heck, even Wikipedia has an article about it, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparky

  119. ex-UTW fan on October 10, 2010 at 12:38 am said:

    UTW = Unlimited Trolling Works

  120. lol. I wasn’t going to comment but the post by Sparky_Rollover made me lawl.
    This rage over mere localization is ridiculous. Seriously. DEAL. WITH. IT. You all are supposedly bitching in “concern” for UTW as “fans”, but you’re really just butthurt weeaboos who rage at the drop of a hat over petty shit. Stop being narrow headed cretins and look at the actual quality and accuracy of the translation and editing. Any monkey with half-assed English skills can tell that Ayako’s editing is fairly poor in comparison to gg-UTW. A lot of the sentences simply don’t flow well and some are just flat out wrong grammatically, whereas gg-UTW’s sentences are smooth and understandable, with the exception of one line. I mean really, this is so silly. The characters barely ever say each others’ full names, and there aren’t a lot of uses of the word “onee-sama” or w/e in Index in the fist place. If you’re going to complain about something, at least do it over a real problem, such as the time Moshi gets home. :/
    And to all you faggots saying Ayako has done more research and know the series/novels better than gg-UTW/Kusion (who did the editing), then look at the fucking ED where Ayako translates one of the lines as “…then I can just break the imagination”. wtf? That’s obviously supposed to be “Illusion”, Maon just used “Imagine” in the lyrics because she either did not know the word “Illusion” or she wanted to do a play off of “Imagine Breaker” which translates as “Illusion Killer” in actual English (supported by Kanji usage in the novels). gg-UTW got this. There are many more examples of bad editing by Ayako, and if you faggots complaining about localization actually knew anything about Japanese or even proper English you could spot them.
    UTW are going to localize the fucking names, and will still have kickass translating, editing, and overall quality. DEAL. WITH. IT.

  121. ZoboCamel on October 10, 2010 at 1:19 am said:

    @Suzuku:
    Fansub preferences are serious business. 😛
    Besides, I’d say that the novel’s translation of ‘Imagine Breaker/Illusion Killer’ is irrelevant, considering that, y’know, the anime has Touma calling it Imagine Breaker.

  122. Nenerulo on October 10, 2010 at 1:25 am said:

    @Suzuku
    I am dealing with it as in I decided to watch Ayako’s release and it was perfectly decent without these localisation issues bothering me. The major downside is the encoding quality.
    If you takes a look at Ayako’s script however, it has this line:
    >Uhh, Index-san, {do we want honorifics in this series?}
    Guess they decided to keep them, hopefully they will not change their minds.

  123. Sparky_Sit on October 10, 2010 at 1:29 am said:

    @Suzuku
    One day I’m sure you’ll forgove your daddy for porking you up the butthole while he had you on weekends. Until then , try and calm down , and don’t take it out on the world in general. Homophobia is indeed a symptom .
    Deal with it? Sure , it’s been dealt with. Like a lot of people I for one am going to watch ayako , while you can watch your little gg fansub all by your lonesome. People know what they want , and no matter how many pages of text youre going to write about how wrong they are while looking down on them from your imaginary hights , I’m pretty sure it’s not going to change their minds.
    quote:
    “UTW are going to localize the fucking names”
    Are you psychic perhaps ? Giving them advice ? Threatening them in that cutesey gg way ? I don’t see your little Suzuku name on their staff page.
    I do believe UTW will see this debacle for what it is , and will opt out as soon as possible , to keep what dignity they have left.
    As for you , poor feller , I do really hope you get better soon. BIG HUGS.

  124. Meh, butthurt fags are butthurt indeed.
    Aside from some lines being where the translation/edit is debatable, most of the haters here are just raging ’cause of ‘I’m used to Eclipse’s “Such misfortune”‘ / ‘It’s biribiri FFS! How dare you ruin the nickname of mai waifu!!1!11’ that they’re complaining. Just because that is how manga scanslators/Eclipse/novel translators translate some phrase as something doesn’t mean gg-UTW has to keep that translation for ‘consistency’ sake. Come on, how hard is it for one to accept ‘How unlucky!’ vs ‘Such misfortune!’?! It’s not like there’s an official translation in English for ???? anyway.
    tl;dr:
    ITT: My preferences >>>> Your preferences

  125. Sparky_Goodboy on October 10, 2010 at 1:59 am said:

    @anon
    No , not really no.. They mean _exactly_ what they write.

  126. Elaria on October 10, 2010 at 2:00 am said:

    @Suzaku: Why are you calling people weeaboo’s yet you named yourself Suzaku?
    Anyway, I’m sure most people dealt with it by simply watching from another source. Unfortunately, gg has a reputation that they themselves wanted and in fact enjoy. Some people like the way gg do their scripts while others don’t. I personally don’t like them. I rather not hear someone named “Richard” in a show and read the word “Dick” in the subs. I also don’t like the colorful metaphors they like to use knowing good and well that that’s not what’s being said.
    I am not commenting on this particular show because I simply haven’t seen it yet. I’m just going by what I’ve seen from their past projects.

  127. @Sparky_Sit: This is what I meant by people not understanding English grammar. You completely misunderstood what I was saying about UTW localizing the names. gg. Also, if you didn’t know (which you don’t) some of the UTW staff are old gg fags and look up to Koda. If UTW pulls out of the joint, it won’t be because of butthurt weeaboo who don’t even understand what goes into fansubbing.
    @Elaria: Another awesome guy who can’t read. My name is Suzuku. And using vulgar language for a vulgar show a.k.a. Kampfer makes sense. Deal with it.

  128. Sparky_Goodboy on October 10, 2010 at 3:11 am said:

    @Suzuku
    (which you don’t) some of the UTW staff are old gg fags.
    Yah , they’re oh so loved.
    .access del IGChris
    wow
    talk about butthurt
    yep
    i’m pretty butthurt
    raze
    why is your anus so sore?
    idgi
    it’s okay tojoke around and troll
    but not at the wrong time/subject
    So Raze are you super mad at me?
    more mad at nikon than you

  129. Sparky_Redo on October 10, 2010 at 3:14 am said:

    *&Raze* .access del IGChris
    *@IGChris* wow
    *@IGChris* talk about butthurt
    *&Raze* yep
    *&Raze* i’m pretty butthurt
    *IGChris* raze
    *IGChris* why is your anus so sore?
    *IGChris* idgi
    *&Raze* it’s okay tojoke around and troll
    *&Raze* but not at the wrong time/subject
    ..
    *IGChris* So Raze are you super mad at me?
    *&Raze* more mad at nikon than you

  130. Sparky_Go on October 10, 2010 at 3:19 am said:

    Pathetic last bits:
    *IGChris* like if you don’t respond I am going to take this to mean you seriously have kickbanned me for real
    *IGChris* and don’t want me to come back at any point
    *IGChris* alright then, bye bye raze, and laters other folks

  131. Dauzua on October 10, 2010 at 3:22 am said:

    @suzuku:Since you have obviously been watching these comments non-stop and been criticizing every comment,how about you explain the ji-hi comparison link http://www.ji-hi.net/index2/ that has been deleted after the comments by E & by gg.nigger .Learn the language yourself before making false comments.UTW know the release is screwed and should tell gg to fuckoff and redo the subs and dump them.

  132. Online Tough Guy on October 10, 2010 at 4:29 am said:

    @Dauzua
    I’m not too sure how to decipher that incoherent nonsense.
    That comparison, however, CLEARLY shows how superior gg-UTW’s translation is compared to Ayoko’s.
    Again, I’m not sure if you’re supporting gg-UTW or not since I could not comprehend what you posted, but Suzuku has pretty much been supporting gg-UTW’s release in the comments I’ve read so far. I’ve also agreed with all the posts I’ve read from Suzuku as they all made perfect sense to me.
    Keep up the good work, UTW. This release was great.

  133. Anon² on October 10, 2010 at 4:31 am said:

    @suzuku: I wasn’t going to say anything, but looking up to Koda is dumb.

  134. I can’t believe people are actually comparing this to Ayako. I mean, sure, you can be a weaboo and demand Japanese name order and honorifics. You can be a stupid weaboo and think that Japanese name order and honorifics and Biribiri are even more important than an accurate translation. But to prefer Ayako to anything… that’s a whole new level of retardedness and fail.
    But hey, you can wait for Coalgirls to take UTW’s scripts, weaboo-ize them and put them in huge bloated BD rips.
    Also, Sparky is lol.

  135. thewizardninja on October 10, 2010 at 4:37 am said:

    @DmonHiro
    @AlienGamer
    I think you misunderstood my comment, I’m not making my judgment based on a single line. I did actually download both in order to compare and I do actually read the novels (in fact if you look through previous comments I pointed the mistakes in that line out to them myself among others).
    @gg.nigger
    I’m not a gg fanboy, I hate that they’ve spread their influence on to one of my favourite fansub groups, I’m just pointing out that for the most part Ayako’s translation is just plain poor quality. They don’t employ very good English and they aren’t as easy to understand. Maybe if you stopped jumping on everybody who makes a positive comment on the release you’d have understood that.

  136. Index II! Thank you <3
    I had gotten used to seeing 'such misfortune…' instead of 'how unlucky…' as the translation, but that's not much of a complaint ^^
    I don't know why people get in a fit about honorifics. One should be able to, you know, *hear* them as they're said, so what's the problem?

  137. @Wat & Online Tough Guy:
    Some people prefer accurateness over word flow. And Ayako wins on this one.
    Alkahestry? “Shock to the soul and rectify warping”? “Britain” soldiers instead of knights?

  138. philip on October 10, 2010 at 4:46 am said:

    You guys should learn Japanese.

  139. BzztBzzt on October 10, 2010 at 4:53 am said:

    Sparky =
    Spark – An electrical phenomenon observed when a voltage difference between two close points is great enough to cause electron flow through the air.
    -y – A suffix utilized to convey endearment that is appropriate for nicknames
    As a perk, the name sounds derogatory because the name is often given to dogs.
    But localization is for faggots. Literal translations ftw. Biribiri -> Bzztbzzt or Zapzap plz

  140. Wow so much angry virgin fag.
    Keep up the good work UTW.

  141. @anon
    Alkahestry is just the term for medical alchemy (it’s also the same Japanese word used in FMA), although they really should have left a translater note explaining that if they insisted on using the proper term.

  142. Dauzua on October 10, 2010 at 5:06 am said:

    @Online Tough :Maybe your a fucking idiot that has been trolling under numerous names and are brain dead then .The point is that ”I cant believe these top Britain soldiers are already down” is translated wrong should be “British” and that GG are shit and a joint with them is just going to get more negative comments every week.And i like UTW but not when they use GGs rules on fansubbing and ithink they should dump them and redo the subs.

  143. OMG SUBS ON A v1 ARE NOT PURFUCT!1!!11 GG ARE NIGGERS WAAAAAAAAH!!1
    This has been said about a million times already. You have a problem with the localization? You found a typo? Rainbow karaoke too fabulous for you? Fix. It. Yourself. Stop bitching. I personally found the editing to be rather good (except for minor things like britain soldier which I probably wouldn’t had noticed if someone hadn’t pointed it out here), especially after seeing the comparison with Ayako.

  144. Sparky_Bad_Dog on October 10, 2010 at 5:18 am said:

    Man it’s hard to spot the gg troll with every new name he uses.

  145. Online Tough Guy on October 10, 2010 at 5:25 am said:

    @Dauzua
    Just to clear things up, Online Tough Guy is my only handle. I’ve left one comment so far on this website. (two including this), I comment frequently on other fansub sites under the same name as well.
    These ridiculous replies remind me of those silly youtube comments where people would go to, let’s say, a Lincoln Park video and say: “LINCOLN PARK SUCKS AND IS FOR FAGGGS”.
    If you prefer non-localized, oddly worded, overly literal translations, then stick with Ayoko.
    Trying to convince UTW that they’re wrong for not sticking to your preferences is outrageously stupid.
    If you’re trying to inform them of mistakes so they can correct them, the manner you’re doing it is not only unnecessarily vulgar, it’s also downright offensive. You make me ashamed to be in the same species as you.

  146. Nenerulo on October 10, 2010 at 5:33 am said:

    @Online Tough Guy
    >Trying to convince UTW that they’re wrong for not sticking to your preferences is outrageously stupid.
    Except that aside from this single joint those have been UTW’s preferences as well.

  147. Online Tough Guy on October 10, 2010 at 5:41 am said:

    @Nenerulo
    And they have said that since they’re doing a joint with [gg] that their not going to be following their usual routine.
    “So, for this release, do not expect:” etc etc
    Whining about it makes no difference.
    At the very least, you can respect their decision as dedicated fansubbers and accept the choice they’ve made.

  148. Dauzua on October 10, 2010 at 5:48 am said:

    “You make me ashamed to be in the same species as you”.I wasn’t the one being ridiculous ,its you with crude comments .Shame on you for having no manners or self respect,and for your info i don’t mind as long as its English ,shame on you and your parents for raising someone so rude and nasty .

  149. Is that Online Tough Guy koda since hes been butt raped .Shame on GG

  150. thewizardninja on October 10, 2010 at 6:11 am said:

    Another thing I found, at 0:22:36 shouldn’t it be “the Church of England” (referring to the Anglican Church) rather than “the British Church”? Do the Japanese have a specific word for the Church of England or did you just not make the distinction? It’s almost like you got a different translator for the part after the ED, it’s riddled with mistakes.

  151. AlienGamer on October 10, 2010 at 6:11 am said:

    @Suzkuku
    That was an ED, besides, was that ED made specifically for Index? I don’t know, but I dont think so, either way a mistake in the ED is far less an issue as a mistake in the story. Specially when its dealing with a major group in the story..You wouldn’t call The Knights Templars, Villagers would you?

  152. lol Craig..
    1) Koda is at NYAF right now
    2) She, not he.

  153. Online Tough Guy on October 10, 2010 at 6:16 am said:

    @Dauzua
    Oh boy, this made me chuckle. I’m not even going to point out the hypocrisy in your post. Thanks for your time, I was thoroughly entertained by your nonsensical banter.
    And Thank you, UTW, for the exceptional fansub. Have a wonderful whatthefuckever everyone!

  154. AlienGamer on October 10, 2010 at 6:28 am said:

    And btw, for any1 who doesn’t like the styles a group has, use The KMPlayer. you can customize anything you need, and watch the subs the way you want..Its the main reason that I dont care about UTW’s style or Ayako’s style..I just focus on the show

  155. The knights of europe ? Kingdom of Brittain? The church of Brittain ? The English Empire ?
    I have an idea .. Why not photopshop over japanese flags and make them into stars and stripes . Add an empire state building to every skjyline , Remove Fuj-san , Dream of tits and ass on new year , not of eggplants and hawks. Rename Okinawa Florida ! and thank Mc Donalds instead of Square Enix as sponsors.
    Why in God’s name did UTW ever agree to this .. gg doesn’t need a translator , they make it up as they go along anyway .

  156. Sparky_Fetch on October 10, 2010 at 6:32 am said:

    @AlienGamer
    Everyone uses mpc-hc these days , with cccp codec pack , maybe latest ffdshow tryout , CoreCodec and ac3filter for the adventurous ones.
    In most players you can change the font , i think it’s the least of anyone’s worries tbh.

  157. bakeacake on October 10, 2010 at 6:41 am said:

    Doesn’t really matter. Just watch whatever comes out first. Maybe they should update their “About” page and people will be happy?
    “We are a quality speedsub group, and believe in the efficacy of a small, skilled, and dedicated group of staff members. We work to provide readable subtitles that add to the viewing experience while staying true to the source material. Our very high quality standards are based on what we ourselves would expect to see on our screen. We strive to find the perfect balance between speed and quality by reviewing our performance with each release and making improvements to how we work if necessary. And when a series ends, we review the scripts for the entire series for possible corrections and improvements before releasing a batch version, true to our belief that, in the end, speed is no substitute for quality.”

  158. AlienGamer on October 10, 2010 at 8:13 am said:

    Meh, check the MAL polls, Ayako has a 62:71 ration while gg-UTW has a 21:47 ratio..so there you go

  159. DmonHiro on October 10, 2010 at 8:23 am said:

    There you go what? MAL ratings are about as accurate as an AKM-47 used for sniping.

  160. For_the_record on October 10, 2010 at 8:27 am said:

    @
    Aliengamer
    It would have helped if you had clicked…
    Ayako:
    1845 users approve
    311 users disapprove
    Total: 2156
    GG-UTW
    21 users approve
    26 users disapprove
    Total: 47

    Not that it means anything , but if you’re going to “there ya go” you’d better “ya go” right..

  161. imgayirl on October 10, 2010 at 8:39 am said:

    >Ayako uses exactly what the characters say, honorifics and the correct name order. Its just that they use a more advanced level of English that gg-UTW.
    lol

  162. Ah, what a waste… Way too localized for my tastes…

  163. AlienGamer on October 10, 2010 at 10:47 am said:

    @For_the_record: Do u see the approval number? and thats for all the shows they’ve done, they do have a longer history than UTW. And yes, i do find MAL ratings to be helpful.

  164. AlienGamer on October 10, 2010 at 10:49 am said:

    Check the Index II page for the Index ratings, you checked Ayako’s ratings as a whole, and that number is quite good, considering all the shows they’ve done, and the time that they’ve been around

  165. Seriously, you’re choosing subtitles that YOU read, because someone ELSE said they’re good..

  166. artworkx on October 10, 2010 at 11:13 am said:

    “Why in God’s name did UTW ever agree to this .. gg doesn’t need a translator , they make it up as they go along anyway.”
    One of the worst comments I’ve ever read. I think you would find that gg’s translation is usually far more accurate than other groups. They edit their scripts so it makes sense in English without losing any of the meaning. Literal subs are just stupid and anyone who thinks otherwise is stupid as well.

  167. thewizardninja on October 10, 2010 at 11:45 am said:

    I found another mistake (you guys must hate me XD).
    At 0:01:19 Index is talking about the Lotus Staff and Ether (the 5th element) which the Lotus Staff represents, not an “Ether Lily Staff”. You’ll hear both of these terms quite often in the next arc so you should make sure you get it right now. You guys really need a novel reader so you can pick up on stuff like this.

  168. Are there any plans for a 480p x264 version(would be nice for people with a volume restricted internet access like me 😉 )?
    Thanks in advance.

  169. Or 576p for that matter (480p is probably a bit too low).

  170. Even though there weren’t many groups who did season 1, I wonder why none of them are doing season 2. o_o
    And yes, I do know that Eclipse won’t be subbing this.

  171. artworkx on October 10, 2010 at 12:12 pm said:

    @ thewizardninja
    I don’t think they actually care.

  172. thewizardninja on October 10, 2010 at 12:18 pm said:

    @artworkx
    I’m sure they care more than you think. Nobody wants to make mistakes more than once, especially when somebody’s pointed it out.

  173. lol @ people thinking Ayako uses something resembling English.

  174. Invictous on October 10, 2010 at 1:47 pm said:

    @fnord lol at you for not understanding their english. Well, the big words might be too much for you, so I cant blame you

  175. artworkx on October 10, 2010 at 2:34 pm said:

    @ Invictous
    http://ji-hi.net/index2/Ayako/14-dialog10.png
    You call that English?

  176. Invictous on October 10, 2010 at 2:44 pm said:

    And UTW’s use of the Wrong term is better? And they did announce a Ver 2 coming up for a few errors, so keep your panties on.
    1 mistake to UTW’s slander of the show is something i can live with. And i did see errors in UTW’s subs as well. I’ll have to download it again, but I’ll let you know where.

  177. thewizardninja on October 10, 2010 at 3:03 pm said:

    @Invictus
    Come on, the guys need a another editor or QC, SOMEBODY who can correct their horribly worded script. If you think there’s only one mistake in there then you are horribly mistaken.

  178. jackman on October 10, 2010 at 3:05 pm said:

    @artworkx: Sorry, but I don’t see what’s wrong on that screenshot.
    Care to explain? Thx

  179. Invictous on October 10, 2010 at 3:24 pm said:

    I’m guessing that “The Knights that England IS so proud of” should be “The Knights that England ARE so proud of”
    I watched both releases. Spotted two mistakes in Ayako, and quite a few in UTW which i will point out, btw, this is NOT counting the slander that they are gonna go by using western terms and lack of research. If i see Biribiri translated as Sparky so help me god

  180. jackman on October 10, 2010 at 3:29 pm said:

    Uhm, no, I am pretty sure it’s supposed to be IS. We’re talking about England and not about the knights. And England is singular.
    I doubt, or at least hope, that artworkx is not talking about that. I guess he meant the whole sentence, since i’t already more than just simple english, but I had to ask to make sure. 😀

  181. If you guys want a definite example, first line for ED, “Even intertwined fate I can change, since everything lies in these hands of mine”. If this is not wrong, I don’t know what is.

  182. artworkx on October 10, 2010 at 3:39 pm said:

    @ Invictous
    I don’t remember people complaining when Eclipse had used “Shocker” for Biribiri. People only started to use Biribiri after hearing it in the audio.
    As thewizardninja mentioned Ayako’s script is poorly worded and has many grammar issues. Yes UTW got it wrong with Britain and England but you can’t argue that their editing is inferior. Also a lack of research can easily be rectified unlike bad English.
    Also if you’re so particular about the use of western terms why aren’t you moaning that Ayako used comics instead of manga, which may I state UTW did.

  183. Invictous on October 10, 2010 at 3:51 pm said:

    I did. Check their page. I already asked what happened with the whole Comic/Manga thing. But complains should be put in the correct place, I’m not gonna talk about UTW’s faults in Ayako’s page cause its none of their business.
    Meh, to each its own i guess, I’ll just stick with Ayako. But i do hope that the new UTW policy doesn’t carry on to their other releases. I do like them, just that I have very high standards for this series. After all, I have been waiting for an entire year for this.

  184. Piroca de Fantasma é Geladinha on October 10, 2010 at 4:16 pm said:

    No honorifics and not using Biribiri…. I will watch a better version, by some other group…

  185. @ Invictous
    Hahahaha.
    Yeah, no.
    I understand Ayako, but their grammar and diction is still absolutely abysmal. Frankly, Ayako, FFFPeeps and the lot should file their stuff under “Non-English” on TT.

  186. Brohamn on October 10, 2010 at 4:39 pm said:

    Well played UTW lol. I just hope you’re 100% prepared for what you got yourselves into.

  187. weaver on October 10, 2010 at 4:47 pm said:

    Wow the comments for this post is a Hit!
    Seeing the amount of anti-gg’ism, UTW just might reconsider their joint…dame? :3

  188. Buffaloman on October 10, 2010 at 4:58 pm said:

    Being a fan of UTW and checking it every day for the past few months, you guys seemed like a fansubbing staff that really seemed to “get it”. Posting images of Railgun manga arriving in the mail and long exciting posts about Misaka and your other favorite characters. You love the stuff just as much as we do. Getting a new manga in the mail or seeing that an episode of your favorite show got released are like small victories that make the day that much better.
    That’s why I’m incredibly confused why you decide to take something that all your fans find special (and let’s face it.. we all love the show or people wouldn’t be making such a big deal out of it) and taking away elements from the show/characters that we love. What if you picked up a manga and suddenly everyone’s name was changed, would sort of be disappointing right? Take that “specialness” away from it? That’s what I’m getting at. So I really hope you guys reconsider taking the same route as the other great shows you subbed, and meeting the high standard that Eclipse set.
    The only counter arguements I’ve seen are like.. “Don’t tell people what to do in their free time” and “go DL Ayako’s horrible subs” and “well, we respect Koda”. While all may be legit things to say… none of them really explain why the hell it would be so bad to go back to eastern name order, honorifics, etc.

  189. Perhaps they like the show and the material, yet think the best translation does no contain JP words?

  190. artworkx on October 10, 2010 at 5:07 pm said:

    I got to lol at the fact people would prefer subs that has eastern name order and honorifics rather than subs where the script is properly edited and is grammatically correct. I guess it can’t be helped how stupid people are.
    ?(???)?

  191. @fnord
    gg pressure , nothing else. Don’t even doubt it for a second.

  192. @artworkx
    We just want to know what they’re saying mate . Leave eveything else the fuck alone.

  193. Does anyone other than myself find it exceedingly disconcerting to read ‘Mikoto Misaka’ when ‘Misaka Mikoto’ is being said?
    Personally, I think that anything that’s attached to a name (be it a person, place, food, etc…) should be kept in the subs. Otherwise, it would just seem really, really weird to read. Be it Biri-biri, Izumi-san, Takoyaki or stuff like that.

  194. Balls McGee on October 10, 2010 at 5:15 pm said:

    Have no idea who gg is or anything nor do I have any idea about….liberal translation. But based on comments I will not have super high expectations while I watch this. Will get back to ya later 😀
    P.S. I still have faith in you UTW!

  195. Brohamn on October 10, 2010 at 5:16 pm said:

    [gg] is like the 4kids of the subbing community lol

  196. artworkx on October 10, 2010 at 5:39 pm said:

    @ Kreep
    You are knowing what they’re are saying. gg just edits so it makes ‘sense’ in English. Why would you want literal subs?

  197. Kerberos on October 10, 2010 at 5:45 pm said:

    @artworkx
    I think he means he doen’t want someone’s “replacement” sense of humor , wants to be able to feel what’s going on when someone in school drops the honorific and makes the main protagonist blush. And generally yes, Don’t put your dirty grubby little self important fingerprints allover his beloved anime. Keep it clean and leave everything in .

  198. @kerberos
    What i meant was:
    “We just want to know what they’re saying mate . Leave eveything else the fuck alone.”
    In just don’t want anyone messing with ANY of the content mate , I just need to know what they’re saying , nothing more , nothing less.

  199. jackman on October 10, 2010 at 5:54 pm said:

    Who t/l the episode? Raze?
    @artworkx
    Did you already explain what you don’t like about that screenshot? http://ji-hi.net/index2/Ayako/14-dialog10.png

  200. herpaderpa on October 10, 2010 at 5:55 pm said:

    In before Kuroko’s Oneesama becomes mistress.

  201. bakeacake on October 10, 2010 at 5:57 pm said:

    Pretty excited about a joint that will probably go against your mission statement.

  202. bakeacake on October 10, 2010 at 6:00 pm said:

    @jackman
    “is” refers to “England, and “are” refers to “Knights”. Not sure what the issue is, maybe he thought the former should be “are”. It is grammatically correct, however.

  203. artworkx on October 10, 2010 at 6:10 pm said:

    @ jackman
    Read the line. Don’t you find it awkward?

  204. “IS” Is the only correct possibility in this context.
    The only possible awkward thing is not having a questionmark at the end.

  205. It’s not “multiple choice”

  206. imgayirl on October 10, 2010 at 6:32 pm said:

    are you guys fuckin retarded? did you not take a single english course?
    verbs are matched to the subject, which is not after a preposition
    it’s ‘are’

  207. imgayirl on October 10, 2010 at 6:33 pm said:

    you faggots take your japanese cartoons way too seriously

  208. @imgayirl
    …that england <-IS so proud of….
    You really need to go back to school kid , and maybe calm down a bit.

  209. TheMist on October 10, 2010 at 7:15 pm said:

    And for all those who said that Ayako dont use proper English, and then say “are” is the correct term, take a fuckin English class:
    The Car that Jack (are/is) proud of: Its IS Proud of, works the same for the Ayako statement. And seriouly, check the work before you blame it, Ayako used perfectly good English, except for 1 gramatical error which I spoted. Anyone crying about any ED mistake, I’ve just gotta say this: Really, is the ED that important to you? What significance does it play in the story? Nothing.

  210. Dark_Sage on October 10, 2010 at 7:29 pm said:

    QUALITY stuff

  211. gg.nigger on October 10, 2010 at 8:05 pm said:

    Its are omg why is you peoples so stupids.
    GAWD.
    /sarcasm

  212. jackman on October 10, 2010 at 8:08 pm said:

    @artworkx: Sounds completely fine to me. Sure, there might have been a simpler way of saying the same thing, but other than that it’s okay.

  213. http://ji-hi.net/index2/Ayako/14-dialog10.png
    That line is grammatically correct. No discussion.
    However, it ENTIRELY FAILS TO BE A LINE THAT PEOPLE WOULD USE.
    “I can’t believe these are the knights that England is so proud of.”
    That would be my own translation for ?????????????????
    Is it liberal? Oh, fuck yeah. Does it make more sense than Ayako’s and better conveys the Japanese?
    FUCK YEAH.
    I find it enraging how absolutely incompetent the vast majority of the internet/mankind/any given section of the populace is.

  214. AlienGamer on October 10, 2010 at 8:31 pm said:

    Dude, that line makes complete sense in both the context and grammer. I dont see what your going on about.

  215. No, it’s just shitty English. Period. “[…]are in this state.” – that’s not good diction.
    Period.
    There’s no way to argue this. Seriously. This is Engrish surviving due to a mentally impaired translation/edit of ??.
    Period.
    I’m not saying the line is unintelligible, but I don’t rate subtitles for intelligibility. I presuppose that. If a line isn’t intelligible in the first place, the entire fucking group should disband. I rate for style, diction and elegance, none of which Ayako’s subs are blessed with.

  216. Nenerulo on October 10, 2010 at 8:51 pm said:

    Time for you guys to shut up about that one single picture.

  217. Lol it’s not like the rest of Ayako’s subs fare any better.

  218. TheMist on October 10, 2010 at 8:57 pm said:

    you can rant and rage all you want, bottom line, there is nothing wrong with Ayako’s subs, dont go making shit up, that line makes complete sense, and when compared to UTW’s version where they got the term wrong, i’d say its much better.
    And if you think fansubbing is so easy why dont you try it? After all, u make it sound fuckin easy. Get this straight: They do it for FREE. u can bend down and suck your own thing if you think you have the right to tell people that they should disband, when you take their stuff for free.
    I support the Fansubbers, may it be UTW, Ayako, or sum shitty group that just came up. Your free to make your choice, but there is a limit to how great an ungrateful prat a person can be

  219. Yeah right. I’ll go start fansubbing.
    And sure there’s something wrong with Ayako. It’s not good English. I don’t care about correct grammar, because if the grammar isn’t correct, I refuse to watch it in the first place. English is a really easy language and seeing people mess it up in something they release to the public is embarrassing to the human race. If you can’t speak proper English, don’t fucking fansub into English.
    Frankly, Ayako is unwatchable in my opinion. The English is simply too bad, and I’d rather watch the show in Japanese without distracting nonsense popping up that makes my brain twist and bend in entirely new ways.

  220. TheMist on October 10, 2010 at 9:13 pm said:

    And its not like u’r reasoning is any better anyway. Whine all you want, the majority respect Ayako’s work anyway. Look at the downloads between the two groups @ NyaaTorrents. 26231 people downloaded Ayako’s ver to 9308 people who downloaded gg-UTW’s. in case your math is as good as your reasoning, thats more than twice as much.

  221. TheMist on October 10, 2010 at 9:19 pm said:

    Fuck it, if people like you dont exist, then normal people dont have anyone to beat up. So, continue that pathetic way of life of yours, and I do hope you’ll get that hug from your dad instead of the other things he does to you.
    Me out, i’ve got exams to worry about, instead of trying to explain things to a close minded person.

  222. I’m fairly certain that has more to do with Ayako releasing first than the quality of the subs. >.>

  223. Nenerulo on October 10, 2010 at 9:24 pm said:

    Actually the numbers for gg-UTW’s release is pretty good considering. Ayako had the first release of the series, so a lot of people would download regardless of the group just to check out the series itself. The fact that so many people have downloaded gg-UTW’s release is impressive. Shows that people were looking forward to that specific release and were willing to wait.
    But now that we have seen what the end result was for this joint, I doubt the numbers will be as high next week if Ayako release first again.

  224. Hahaha, yeah right. You go have that dream you have of me, bro.
    All right, fuck it. Everyone, go watch whatever you want.
    Mankind is retarded. Proven fact now.

  225. @fnord
    “Sheesh. I can’t believe these top Britain soldiers are already down.”
    Is this better ?
    The closest thing to a correction would be
    “Sheesh , I can’t believe these top British soldiers are down already.”

  226. @fnord
    quote
    “Mankind is retarded. Proven fact now.”
    The more you’re typing the more you’re proving it tbh.

  227. What the hell is going on in here?
    There’s only a couple of things I’d like to point out.
    Although I don’t personally subscribe to gg’s “ideals”, and told Kusion he probably shouldn’t go ahead with them, there’s not anything wrong or inaccurate about the subs (except that one stupid picture people keep focusing on). It’s entirely a question of style.
    Which brings me to the second point, which is that y’all need to take a look at more than just that one picture. Ayako’s subs, from what I can see, are technically accurate, but phrased VERY differently than gg-UTW’s. There are clearly some who like Ayako’s phrasing better, and I’m not going to try to change their minds (I had nothing to do with this release, and judging by the response to it, that’s probably a good thing). But to me, and no doubt to many others, that phrasing is really awkward to a native English speaker.
    http://www.ji-hi.net/index2/Ayako/03-eptitle-lowres.png
    http://www.ji-hi.net/index2/Ayako/13-dialog9.png
    Ordinarily I’d be happy to see so many people commenting around here, but holy crap, people. Chill out.
    Even among solo UTW releases, Raze and I tend to have vastly different translations styles. Everyone has their own individual touch. UTW isn’t going to change the way we do things on our solo projects, but I’m amazed that so many people were shocked to find out that a joint project is going to be a little different. It’d be great if y’all will stick with us, but if not, just keep it civil. No matter who you go with, I hope you enjoy the show.

  228. Nenerulo on October 10, 2010 at 10:40 pm said:

    I personally appreciate the work put into the UTW release, thank you, Ershin.
    Just didn’t expect the release would be shaped by how gg do things, given that UTW is doing the translation. gg is great at typesetting, timing, and encoding. Also the overall editing is also very good, aside from some localisation application I disagree with. So while I appreciate the work, I was also disappointed by how the release was handled, compared to solo UTW releases.
    Keep up the good work though, I especially appreciate your solo releases!

  229. thewizardninja on October 10, 2010 at 10:40 pm said:

    @Kreep
    The characters say knights and not soldiers, England and not Britain and they talk about how they’re the “pride” of England not about their skill.
    “Sheesh. Those knights are meant to be the pride of England but just look at the state you’ve left them in.” would be a much better translation of the line. I mean it’s still a little awkward but at least it’s grammatically correct and uses the proper terms.

  230. Dizzy Miko on October 10, 2010 at 11:24 pm said:

    No honorifics? =/ I guess I can deal with that since I listen. xD I just hope the editing of the translations will at least be tolerable (note that I hate hate hate gg fansubs for all they are worth). And lol at Sparky. That’s actually a pretty good nickname for her. >=3

  231. I personally think, that everyone bitching about how this shit was edited should download every release, edit it themselves, and MOVE THE FUCK ON. ONOES there was one or two minor mistakes in the tl/ed… who cares?? Y’all are getting this shit for free. I downloaded both just to see what pissed in everyone’s corn flakes and I saw very little wrong with either one. I do not claim to speak Japanese, nor do I claim to be a true expert at the English language. Both were readable, fairly easy to understand and not overly complicated. And in the end it won’t matter anyway, because when I buy the licensed release, it’s not going to have the fan translated version, it’s going to have a completely different translation anyway. And I am going to like it.

  232. SayNoToFags on October 10, 2010 at 11:55 pm said:

    Seems the cocaine you took wasn’t clean, how else could you decide to work with these retarded ass-clowns from gg?
    Dropping honorifics isn’t nice, westernisation stinks badly, and “Sparky”? wtf!? That sounds like some retarded dog’s name.
    I’ll still be getting your Amagami, but I won’t touch this garbage with a ten-foot-pole. Ayakao might not be the best, but still a lot better than gg crap.

  233. @Nenerulo: Again, I didn’t have anything to do with this release. Your comment was somewhat ambiguous, so I just want to make sure that’s clear (don’t want to steal credit from the hard work of others). I just wanted to reassure people that we’re not going to change the way we do solo projects, and uh, maybe tell everyone to relax a little. -_-

  234. Nenerulo on October 11, 2010 at 12:09 am said:

    @Ershin
    Ah I am sorry, I assumed you were the translator for this episode.

  235. They screwed up Touma’s addressing himself in 3rd person by his family name in the quest to de-weeabo the script btw. This is a purposeful characterization that has plot significance later in the series so you might want to look into revising that in the future.

  236. jackman on October 11, 2010 at 12:18 am said:

    So who is the translator?
    @Anon: One more reason that you should try to avoid changing things.

  237. quote:
    “(don’t want to steal credit from the hard work of others)”
    This made me LOL

  238. Unless I’m severely mistaken, Moshiburner is working as the translator for Index II.

  239. Who would have thought having GG and UTW release just 1 episode would cause hundreds of people to shit bricks…

  240. Captain Obvious on October 11, 2010 at 12:39 am said:

    @AP
    I think the UTW fans are trying to say something tbh… I can’t quite put my finger on it.

  241. Yeah, damn weaboos clench your teeth cause UTW is coming in dry 😀
    I like UTW/GG’s approach a lot more than Ayako’s convoluted sentences, especially as a non-native English speaker.
    Honorifics and eastern style name order have no place in English translations even if it’s a sub, or does anyone of you naggers speak garbage like that in real life to actual people?

  242. Einstein on October 11, 2010 at 12:54 am said:

    Hi , i’m just replying to this thread so i can type weeaboo ..
    weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo weeaboo
    Thank you all for listening , now i feel great , and in a sense feel like i have won some argument.

  243. weaver on October 11, 2010 at 1:41 am said:

    Its all personal taste…. I think we should just keep our comments to ourselves now… Thanks UTW for working on Index II anyway

  244. @ Einstein, LMAO!!!
    Well… too many comments imo, so… why haven’t y’all closed the comments yet? This is a pointless battle. Some don’t care about “proper” English now a days. People just want it to make since “YO.”
    Some do care about proper English; Some just want it to make sense; Some hate seeing grammar issues; some want it translated “eastern style.” Some people hate dubs, some people hate dubs, some people love subs over dubs.
    Right now, I bet some people are wondering why I’m using simi-collens and commas as I did. Some are going to hate the fact that I misspelled semicolons a second ago.
    I’m sry but If I were the moderator for this site, I would of closed it a long time ago and said, “We sub however the hell we want to sub. If you don’t like it, go somewhere else.”
    You lose fans, you gain fans when you do something new. Those who like GG are now going to look up on UTW. Those who Hate GG will probably go else where. If Eclipse subbed this (no offense), most wouldn’t care much about GG or UTW because too many people are focused on the fact that “wow, eclipse has been around for a long time, they know what they are doing.” Eclipse does make mistakes as well. So does every other group. V2’s should be expected from groups who care and no fixes from groups who don’t care.
    I can go on and on and on. What happens if both UTW, GG, and ayako says, “screw y’all.” we aint subbing crap. Then what? If that happens, then I’m sure some unknown people will sub it and who knows how good it will be.
    anyway, I said what I wanted to. Both ayako’s release and gg utw release are both understandable, neat, well done, with very little mistakes.

  245. lvhina on October 11, 2010 at 4:48 am said:

    gg sucks, koda is fatty, raze is stupid , ayako is love

  246. K_Whaa on October 11, 2010 at 4:54 am said:

    @lvhina
    Stop playing fake ayako fanboi you little gg-troll.

  247. @K_Whaa
    ? You mean “gg staff trolls” pretend to be other people to give the impresion these replies are just a bunch of hate and have no grounds ?
    All this to try and discredit this line of comments and dismiss them as hate from ayako , and not UTW fans being genuinely concerned and apalled about UTW’s decision to do this project with GG?
    That’s going a bit far no ?

  248. K_Whaa on October 11, 2010 at 5:08 am said:

    tell me im paranoid , i wouldnt be surprised

  249. Nenerulo on October 11, 2010 at 5:11 am said:

    @Kreep
    You would be surprised.
    Anyhow people should check out [EA] to see how this release should have been made in the first place. Was planning to go with Ayako for the remainder of the series, but after checking over the [EA] script and the changes they made I will be going with them instead.

  250. Samsauce on October 11, 2010 at 5:41 am said:

    Sparky sounds just right.

  251. elitist.magi on October 11, 2010 at 7:03 am said:

    FUCK!~ Shut the hell up already you damn niggers!!! This shit has been raging for more than 48 hours! Haven’t you all seen the Viagra adds? “If effect persists for more than 4 hours you should see a doctor”.
    I think by this point its very clear who likes what, we live in a democracy, (some of you don’t but then that sucks QQ less). UTW has said that this project will not effect the way they do their other shit, so, if someone doesn’t like gg, go with ayako. If you think ayako’s suck then edit it yourself in aegisubs. (I personally like them the way they are but w/e).
    Personally, I also don’t like gg because of the way they do their shit but thats MY FUCKING OPINION. I’m not going force it down anyone’s throat, and I don’t give a shit what people say about it.
    So chilax you damn negros.
    If you’re still ganna rage then please rage after watching this.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW6M8D41ZWU

  252. AlienGamer on October 11, 2010 at 9:37 am said:

    @elitist.magi lol at the Vid

  253. yeahair on October 11, 2010 at 10:57 am said:

    Apart from all the localization discussion, I guess it would be a good idea, if you had someone in your staff who knows about the Light novels, in order to avoid certain translation mistakes. Just saying.

  254. fight-o on October 11, 2010 at 1:26 pm said:

    Nevertheless, i would love to see a poll on this issue.

  255. Sparky_Rollover on October 11, 2010 at 4:00 pm said:

    I’ve seen Eclipse bought up a few times in this discussion , and from what i remember they started out as a joint with m.e.e.w. as well , then decided to go solo. UTW should take that as an omen imo. Not to mention the charming way elitist.magi & his alter ego’s are reacting. (you forgot the weeaboo insults this time around kid)
    The bottom line as I see it , and this is also my personal opinion , UTW was doing so well , and with the death of eclipse there is a void to fill , and as a fan of UTW , seeing how good they were doing , this was the perfect opportunity to step in. I don’t need to state this even more blatantly but UTW is being used by gg , and should simply opt out and solo this. You will be king of the hill if you do it , I can assure you of that . Keeping this disaster going , will make irreparable to your reputation.
    A concerned fan.

  256. Sparky_Pant on October 11, 2010 at 4:27 pm said:

    @fight-o
    It would just get mass abused and you know it.

  257. Enjoy our superior release. Fuck off gg & UTW!

  258. Gestalt-kun on October 11, 2010 at 5:57 pm said:

    From the gg page:

    This is a joint with UTW Fansubs. Direct your rage at them if you dislike the subs.
    – ktiming dropped (fuck you, UTW)
    – no honorifics (someone said to do it, but I forgot)
    – western name order (it’s kawaii)
    Also: my choice of nickname for Biribiri is genius: Sparky.

    Direct your rage at them …
    Fuck you UTW ….
    This is not close to even being remotely funny .
    I had no idea this was going on .
    Why are you guys allowing this , as someone who has been collecting your releases since Summer Wars this makes me so mad.
    Am I missing something ? Why do you associate with these depraved low-lifes ?

  259. K_Whaa on October 11, 2010 at 6:11 pm said:

    @EA
    gg-troll strikes again !
    the only ones needing to “fuck off” as you so nicely put it are “gg”.
    I nor anyone else believe for 1 second someone asociated with EA who imo have (albeit somewhat misplaced) good intentions would troll these comments.

  260. Sparky_Bad_Dog on October 11, 2010 at 6:18 pm said:

    @EA
    A nice clean UTW release without GG will do just fine for me thnx.
    @K_Whaa
    I’m starting to see what you mean…
    @Gestalt-kun
    I had overlooked it 2 days ago , thinking it was the same description as here , but looking more closely “fuck you, UTW” is misplaced to say the least. Especially in light of all this.

  261. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO on October 11, 2010 at 6:38 pm said:

    Why mess with perfection?! Keep Biribiri, it´s the ultimate nickname for her >.<

  262. Thomas on October 11, 2010 at 7:32 pm said:

    I think this post was just a troll to see how stupid the fansub watching community is, since atleast as far as I can tell ‘Sparky’ is never used in this episode. And even if it is used in the future, who the fuck cares? You’d still hear the audio say ‘Biribiri’.
    Anyways, the subs were great. Seems to me anyone bitching either hasn’t watched them or takes anime a little too damn serious.

  263. @Thomas
    Exactly. I finally got around to watching it and her nickname is never even used. And didn’t Touma stop calling her biribiri after he lost his memory anyway?

  264. @Niku
    From what i’ve been reading the biribiri thing seems to be the least of people’s problems. Honorifics , name reversal , liberal westernisation and a failiure to do their homework reading the light novels to ensure continuity seem to be what is talked about mostly here. The sparky thing seems to be the “cherry on top” that made people get angry . If you ask me , I don’t like it when the content gets messed with , jokes getting westernized for example , nuances losing their meaning and whatnot . If it was only the biribiri thing noone would have said shit.

  265. K_Whaa on October 11, 2010 at 9:09 pm said:

    @Cargo
    It’s just the staff gg-troll at it again , there’s no reason to even give him the satisfaction of a reply. UTW got the message by now , it’s up to them to make it right. I have confidence that they will.

  266. UTW ,will you be redoing the script after all of the negative comments .I wont expect an answer after all the rudeness and negative comments posted on here but thought i would ask anyway .Also i don’t think anyone in the fansubbing community would think any less of you if you dropped gg and redid it your own way,everyone knows gg are trolls so i wonder why the partnership happened in the first place.A bit of clarification would be appreciated by your fans .Thanks .

  267. bakeacake on October 11, 2010 at 11:56 pm said:

    @Sparky_Rollover
    If I remember correctly, all m.3.3.w did with their Eclipse joint was provide the transport stream. They could no longer do that, so they were gone. Not like Eclipse dropped them because they are a quality group.

  268. Sparky_Bad_Dog on October 12, 2010 at 12:03 am said:

    @bakeacake
    m.3.3.w is a good group . I was meremy illustrating it has been known to happen , and I’m sure UTW doesn’t have to worry about it’s reputation one bit when they do it alone from now on.

  269. Captain Slow on October 12, 2010 at 1:13 am said:

    I won’t get as uptight as some of the people here about the lack of honorifics and whatnot (considering I watch Ayako’s releases of this series), but I think what does bother me is the fact that, in essence, what gg has done with the liberal Americanization of its fansub work is take away from the cultural aspect of the series that they pick up. My general rule of thumb when it comes to a series has always been that, if a series takes place in Japan or features primarily Japanese characters, then use certain types of honorofics. Things like ‘san’ and ‘kun’ and ‘chan’ should stay, because there isn’t really anything else that sounds proper, and leaving them out is just as bad, because Japanese culture is a culture of titles and honorofics, so disregarding them for the sake of Americanizing it is an affront to what’s portrayed in any given series. Sure, I can understand translating the title ‘-sama’ into ‘Lord’ or ‘Lady’ because it’s a title of deep respect, and it’s one that makes sense. The same thing with ‘-sensei,’ because in essence it’s the same principle of respect towards a teacher that we have as a culture, as well as other areas of the world. However, translating just ‘Sensei’ into ‘Miss’ or ‘teacher’ doesn’t really make sense, so that would be a time to leave it in.
    One other thing that bugs me is something I’ve seen lately, where a younger sibling of a protagonist of a series is present, instead of using the terms for ‘brother’ or ‘sister,’ the trend I’ve been seeing is replacing the title with that person’s name, which if you ask me is utterly absurd, because a simple ‘brother’ or ‘sister’ (or ‘bro’ and ‘sis’)would have done fine. It’s still a title, and one means the other, so why take it out and force our culture upon another?
    The final thing that bothers me is the reversal of names. Sure, we use first name last, but the simple fact is, they don’t. That’s reason enough not to follow along with that line of thinking, because that part of their culture is different from ours.
    Other than that, like I said, my rule of thumb is if it takes place in Japan or features primarily Japanese characters, then use the honorifics. Otherwise, leave them out, because then it sounds stupid. So all the Spice & Wolf or Valkyria Chronicles or Allison & Lillia themed anime out there should be honorific-free.
    I’m sure I’ll be tl;dr’d, but that’s my two cents on the matter.

  270. My my, coming back here after a few days and I’m still seeing the same things. Deep indeed is the butthurt dealt by gg-UTW.
    @Captain
    A good point, but remember, it’s your preference. There are always conflicting ideals in translations: literal vs liberal, retaining cultural bits of the original language vs localization, etc. The staff decided on a liberal localization instead, and that is their preferences. Why should their preferences be ‘wrong’, and the preferences of some haters here be ‘right’, that they should change their script to suit their ‘right’ preferences?
    Again, ITT: My preference >>>>> Your preference

  271. Gestalt-kun on October 12, 2010 at 2:06 am said:

    @anon
    Don’t confuse Preference with integrity. Changing anything for the sake of changing it , has motive , it is not the job of an editor nor translator to change any of the meaning nor message the media is trying to convey. This is not a matter of opinion.
    Not adding honorifics for example is removing from the content , and potentially changing information into disinformation and propaganda , with or without knowlege of doing so.
    @Captain Slow
    I agree with most of what you have said , and would even extend it to “the message and preference the makers are trying to bring across” even if it is fiction like Spice and Wolf , not really the location where the anime takes place. The translator’s job is merely to make the media understandable by their local population. Not to add or substract anything from it.
    Something else about all this that needs to be underlined , there are known terms that need to be kept , and if the person watching doesn’t know what it is , they can look it up and learn from it. An example i just read on another board was “Spaghetti” “Sushi” “Takoyaki” … Should never be “Cooked wheat dough with tomato and minced porc sauce” “raw fish in rice rolls” “fried octopus balls” just for the sake of “translating” which in these cases would be “i am assuming my target audience are idiots” .
    All this to say … No , not preference .. common sense and decency.

  272. Captain Slow on October 12, 2010 at 2:19 am said:

    A lot of it is because I believe very deeply in preserving the cultural aspects of the arts and entertainment. I feel a healthy appreciation for anything falling under those criteria involves respecting the little bits and pieces that give something its identity. Conversely changing bits and pieces to adapt it to our culture is a bit disrespectful in its own right. You wouldn’t take, say, a Swedish folk song and directly translate it into English or Italian, would you? No, because it’d be disrespectful to everything the song stands for. You’d want to do the song justice and either leave it be, or work it in such a way that it both makes sense and doesn’t intrude on the original meaning of the song.
    I think preservation of even the littlest pieces of culture should be recognized first and foremost, then personal preference can come into play.

  273. @gestalt
    – “Don’t confuse Preference with integrity. Changing anything for the sake of changing it , has motive , it is not the job of an editor nor translator to change any of the meaning nor message the media is trying to convey. This is not a matter of opinion.”
    I’m afraid this is an ambiguous argument. ^ above line of argument only works if someone is totally changing the original meaning, for example,
    ?????????? (I will be going there later) translated as “I will NOT be going there later.”
    This, will be a wrong translation, with the meaning totally changed with just adding a ‘not’ in. This, I agree with you, is a dis-informative, with the intention of misleading, even.
    However, for lines such as
    ??????????(Even if you tell me so…) > I can’t do anything about it!
    As you can see, the literal meaning of the sentence is changed; however, the ‘sense’ of the original utterance is retained. This is one of the tricky parts in translating Japanese to English, the notorious hanging sentences. The above translation is translator’s interpretation of the implication of such an utterance, and while it might be a good guess, one can never say that it’s the EXACT meaning implied since it wasn’t stated out explicitly in the original utterance. [ie, it could’ve been “There’s nothing I can do about it!”, “It’s not my business!”, etc.]
    – “Not adding honorifics for example is removing from the content , and potentially changing information into disinformation and propaganda , with or without knowlege of doing so.”
    Quoting from a lecturer who taught my friend translation courses in college, “There are three elements in translation: addition, subtraction, and substitution.” Removing content where appropriate is allowed in translation, as long as the meaning derived from the translated material does not deviate too far from the original material. If you understand Japanese, you’ll find that there are quite a number of lines where some removal of information was done; the lines would be horribly long if every bit of information is carried over to the translation. You will notice that better if you actually try to translate some of the lines.
    Going more specifically, while I agree that dropping honorifics might potentially change the original information, I wouldn’t say that it’ll go over into the region of ‘disinformation’, even ‘propaganda’. I’m sure you would already know all the implications of the -san, -sama, -chan, -kun suffixes, as well as the ‘calling by first name / given name’ part which are so profound in Japanese dialogues. Removing these suffixes / changing name orders does render these implications to be lost in the process of translation. However, again, to do this or not is to the translator’s discretion; while doing so will cause the implications to be lost, it might not affect the script so much that it warps the original meaning, if done correctly. More over, to one who’s already familiar with these implications, leaving them in the script serves no point; to one who’s oblivious to these, putting them in the script is pointless as well without lengthy translator’s notes explaining the implications of each of the suffixes/name addresses.
    To cut an already long post short, yes, it’s all about preferences of the translator/editor, whether to translate the literal meaning or the intended sense of the original utterance. And by the way, saying that it’s all common sense is a fallacy; what is ‘common sense’ to English users might possibly be totally alien to Japanese users, hence the work of the translator to bridge both of these ‘senses’ together.
    @Captain
    “…_I believe_ very deeply in preserving the cultural aspects of the arts and entertainment.”
    “_I think_ preservation of even the littlest pieces of culture should be recognized first and foremost,…” (emphasis on the “I think”)
    By the “I believe” and “I think” parts in your sentences, isn’t it clear that those are what your opinions, your point of view regarding the issue at matter? Your preference lies in the preservation of the cultural aspects of the original meaning. They are perfectly alright (I tend towards preservation of implicated meanings as well in my translation practice), yet these aren’t the preferences of the staff in gg-UTW for this particular project.
    Also, what’s wrong with “taking a Swedish folk song and directly translate it into English or Italian”? I’m sure you must’ve noticed a number of songs which are originally written in one language, and are then released again in another language, possibly in a new arrangement as well. I don’t know much about European songs, but I do know there are quite a number of songs in Asian languages that are taken from each other (Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Cantonese etc.) and sometimes even translated to English. The translated lyrics make sense, but I’m not sure about the accuracy of the translation in terms of literal meanings. (Sure, a romantic song in Chinese still retains the romantic feel of the lyrics in Japanese, but I’m sure there are times where the literal meaning of the lines have been totally changed as preservation of the syllable count to fit into a particular line is prioritized over preservation of the literal meaning)
    And while you’re at the topic of song translation, you can ask around different group translators who translate the OP and ED songs. Translation of the songs can be one of the hardest things to translate in a series, and I’m sure many translators would agree to it, as the differences of English and Japanese shows up clearly in them. (to illustrate a particular example, coupling choices of the different lines can produce totally different translations. Coupling lines into (A+B, C) vs (A, B+C) can sometimes yield translations which are massively different. Both lines are valid since the coupling is up to the translator’s interpretation, but it’s hard to tell which is the right translation if both lines make sense. Heck, it could even be (A,B,C) instead)

  274. Gestalt-kun on October 12, 2010 at 4:08 am said:

    @anon
    I admit , propaganda might have been a badly chosen word .
    I can think of a few scenario’s in maffia movies where someone could get shot for not using the right honorific . In that case , do what .. have the protagonist say something else in english ? What if it was a geniuine “mistake” the protagonist made at that point in the story. I am all for keeping it clear and exact, as not to portray something different happened that a westerner would consider significant instead . As for common sense I probably should have said “respect” . But when you said “hence the work of the translator to bridge both of these ‘senses’ together.” I have no choice but to press the big NO buzzer again. It is the job of the translator to keep his grubby little fingers off of any ‘sense’ . And certainly not “translate” japanese ‘common sense’ into what he thinks is the american equivalent. If in Japan you would get “punishment X” for doing “action Y” , but in america “action Y” is considered insignificant , “action Y” should never be replaced by something american that would warrant “punishment X”. This is NOT at the discression of the translator. This is changing the story. This isn’t translating.
    Anything beyond translating the actual Japanese implications of a Japanese context is a faux pas. If a westerner does not know the implications of blowing his nose at a corporate meeting , a note could be made at the top of the screen informing what it entrails. A translator should never imply he is also pissing under the table.

  275. @anon 3:39:Clearly you don’t know how good to use proper punctuation.Looking through your walls of text you clearly don’t have grammar or any other aspect on the English language mastered so shouldn’t be lecturing people. Please learn to use English before commenting.

  276. K_Whaa on October 12, 2010 at 5:43 am said:

    @kudo -> Failtroll.

  277. Lol,k_whaa .You butthurt because your meaningless walls of text under an anon name are garbage and not correct.

  278. K_Whaa on October 12, 2010 at 6:08 am said:

    lovely Lain-chan <3 , I'm merely pointing out that if kudo wants to troll , "how good to use proper punctuation." is not going to cut it. Chuuuuu

  279. @kudo
    Was my post so horrible to the point of being incomprehensible? If that was the case, my apologies. I admit, I am not a native English user, and my post might have tons of errors which, on one hand, seemed alright to me, but to a native user, seemed horribly wrong. I would greatly appreciate it if you can point out my errors so that I can learn from my mistakes, but I’m sure everyone’s tired of seeing another WoT again, so please paste it on pastebin post the link back.
    However, I have no intention of lecturing; I’ve yet to mastered English, as you’ve said, let alone lecturing others. I am merely posting out my opinions, and your attempt to derail the argument by saying “Your English sucked; go back and learn some English before you attempt to argue” is not going to be useful. If you’re going to counter back with a “Well, that’ because I don’t even understand your argument as your English is just so awful!”, then I can only say ???????????(???)?
    @gestalt
    I understand your point (I hope I understood it correctly), but there are things that are lost in translations. Using your example, there are two approaches the translator could have done:
    1. Translate the situation exactly as it is, putting in TL notes to explain the situation to which non-natives of the original language wouldn’t have understand, or
    2. Substituting it with the closest situation that a user of the translated language would have gotten it without needing TL notes
    I’m sure you’re supporting the notion of 1, and frankly, I do that as well in my translation practices most of the time. However, while I’m fine with 2 (content substitution within a certain limit, at least, not to affect the plot so much that it radically changes it), you absolutely abhor 2. Am I right with this statement?
    Going back to the context of this series, the closest example which I think, falls into this situation, is how Touma addresses himself using 3rd person. I haven’t read the original novel for this part, and may be wrong, but reading from the posts by others, I’m guessing that Touma (the current Touma) treats his past-self (the Touma before he got his memories removed) as another person. Current-Touma has no idea what kind of person Past-Touma was, so he’s actually treating his past-self as a totally different person apart from himself, though they share the same body. By gg-UTW’s decision to address himself in the 1st person perspective, this implication is lost in the process, just with a simple substitution of Kamijou-san > I. The story is changed? Most probably. How big is the change? I don’t know, haven’t read the story yet, so it could be insignificant, to HOLY SH- YOU KILLED THE PLOT!
    As for honorifics, will the story be changed by dropping it? Possibly, if there are parts appearing later on which rely on the relationship implied by the honorifics.
    Name order? I doubt so, though it can be confusing when someone is called by their surname and you see their first name coming out instead.
    Sparky/Biribiri? I don’t think so, unless some puns appear involving biribiri.
    In short, I’m fine with gg-UTW’s substitutions, as long as they don’t affect the story too much. Ayako’s using approach 1, to translate things exactly as they are, which is fine with me as well. The problem lies with some butthurt fans who holds strongly to their opinions that approach number 1 IS THE ONLY RIGHT WAY TO TRANSLATE THINGS, and approach 2 IS ABSOLUTELY WRONG. But of course, approach 2 should be used within certain limits; like your example, translating as someone pissing under the table when he just blew his nose is doing it too far, and most people would agree to that.

  280. Shaffer`z on October 12, 2010 at 7:39 am said:

    @everyone
    It’s just an anime.

  281. 11123123 on October 12, 2010 at 7:45 am said:

    Just according to keikaku.
    (Translator’s note: keikaku means plan)
    http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/5740/keikaku.jpg

  282. @11123123
    Translator note : It’s not ventriloquism when you talk out of your ass .

  283. HeviMosher on October 12, 2010 at 10:40 am said:

    anon delivers

  284. Captain Slow on October 12, 2010 at 12:32 pm said:

    @anon: I fail to understand why you highlight and continually remind me that what I say is ‘just’ my opinion. Well, uh, no shit? Of course it’s my opinion, everything here is opinion, and since I’m stating mine, I don’t see why what I say has to be singled out and repeatedly told mine is ‘just’ opinion. It’s a bit asinine.

  285. Spincast on October 12, 2010 at 12:32 pm said:

    Then im glad there is a choice here.
    Mine? Ayako’s.
    not a fan of gg’s localization

  286. ziotech on October 12, 2010 at 12:41 pm said:

    Small question, I’m really confused.
    Just finished “Railgun” and I was wondering if this was the second season of that or if I need to watch another season before this. So, please tell me as I am quite confused.

  287. ziotech on October 12, 2010 at 12:44 pm said:

    sorry for double post.
    Missed a small line in something I read, it told me the answer…
    Again, sorry for the double post.

  288. Captain Slow on October 12, 2010 at 12:50 pm said:

    As well, on the subject of the musical analogy that I made, it’s equally important to respect the cultural integrity of any given piece. You can put a bit of a spin on it if you do it right, but sometimes it’s better being left alone. A song cover is supposed to be one band’s song, taken in by another band, injected by that ‘other’ band’s style and then produced. If, in injecting that specific style, you ruin the meaning of it in not only a lyrical but compositional sense, you’ve done the song a great injustice and disrespected both it and the band.

  289. Perhaps I haven’t been clear with my post, and my apologies.
    The point is that those are your preferences of how translations should be done (cultural preservation), and my point is that liberal substitutions made in the translating process is fine as well, as long as it does not go overboard and screws up the story.
    A further point I’d like to make, not directing to you, but to a lot of haters, is that gg-UTW’s liberal edits for this series are fine. A lot of hate has been going around ITT where these haters are basically screaming how wrong is it for them to edit their scripts liberally and when both Ayako’s literal translation and gg-UTW’s liberal translation are fine. (Actually, it’s not too liberal; I can imagine CR’s translation being much more liberal than them if they were to do this series)

  290. And, as a reply to your analogy, I… find it hard to pin down injustice done to song translations.
    Perhaps it’s disrespectful to a folk song about love and peace, translating and inserting cuss words into it, and changing the style into song into somewhat like, death metal? Or perhaps translating a particular song about the innocent romance of a couple into some song on gay love? (not to say that gay love is disrespectful in any sense, but some people might find it offending)
    Still, I’m sure there songs out there which have undergone such a ‘radical translation’, in the sense of both lyrical meaning and compositional style. Some may find these ‘new’ songs offending, and some might just say “Wow! Cool!”.
    I guess the only injustice that you would agree to is to claim a particular song as their own creation without crediting the original source.

  291. jackman on October 12, 2010 at 1:39 pm said:

    @kudo:
    “But of course, approach 2 should be used within certain limits; like your example, translating as someone pissing under the table when he just blew his nose is doing it too far, and most people would agree to that.”
    That is how gg translated Kampfer. Changing for example the way some characters spoke, exaggerating it.
    Of course, gg fans will tell you that a show such a Kampfer doesn’t need a correct translation, but IMO every show, no matter the genre, deserves it.

  292. jackman on October 12, 2010 at 1:40 pm said:

    Sorry, my post was directed to anon.

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  294. K_Whaa on October 12, 2010 at 5:20 pm said:

    @lol
    quote
    “I feel smarter now.”
    It wasn’t anyone’s intention to make you sink into that particular delusion , believe me.

  295. Somebody please explain me why the hell should some fansub follow another, prior FANtranslation (i.e., not official) for the sake of ‘consistency’. A FANtranslation, no matter how good it is or how deep is rooted among fans, cannot claim official-ness. Deal with it.
    Also, asking for “preservation of the Japanese culture traits” in the subs makes you look like mentally challenged people with really short attention spans, since you cannot grasp those traits from what’s being said and need to relay on subs — which would be perfectly fine if you indeed weren’t able to distinguish them from the Japanese flow of speech, but it’s exactly because you can that you’re noticing their absence in the subs. So you don’t need them to be added to the translation.
    Seriously, subs101 says: subtitles aren’t AND SHOULDN’T be a translation of an exact transcription of what’s being said. They should be shortened, edited and adapted. TO HELL. Subtitles are meant to carry bare-bones translations, due to the difference in reading and hearing comprehension, and that you shouldn’t spend all the time watching the subs and not the goddamned images. Asking for “complete” subs, with added elements which are not essential to the understanding of the conveyed message (and they are nor essential for you, since you already grasp those elements from what’s being said) is going against the goal of subtitles.
    If you don’t like how subtitles are meant to be, sorry, you other option is to learn the damn source language. Deal with it.
    This is why professional subtitles will never be like fansubs. [Weeaboo-esque] fansubs distort the very notion of subtitles as the comprehension aid they are, by trying to be equal to the voice dialogues. And that’s just wrong. And somewhat stupid, really.

  296. Weeaboo on October 12, 2010 at 7:15 pm said:

    @wat
    Shouting makes it true.
    Insults prove a point.
    Subs101 is a sandwich making class . Sorry.
    The “seriously” you added there was about equal to a dozen references.
    Really , don’t worry , us weeaboo’s are dealing with it , and everyone else gets what kind of person you are just by reading the tone of your comment tbh.
    Hope you feel better soon .. /hugs.

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